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This thread has 41 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30.
|OP | Post 16 made on Wednesday December 22, 2010 at 12:32|
I found a 15-134 ! :)
Ok, right now the remote is in my possession, but the tv/combo is in a different location. I will have it delivered in a few days. In the meantime, so I am ready to go as soon as I receive the unit, can we start now with the detailed programming instructions? I have already played around a little with the 9xx commands, but not 994. So I have some "feel" for it so far.
What I need to know now is:
EFC moves for all the original remote buttons
actual programming steps/key moves/instructions, etc. (will we need to use code search and then read back any codes?)
Please refer to the photo of the factory remote and/or the pdf manual for the unit available online and/or your own knowledge of what EFCs apply to the names of the functions used on the remote. Remember, I do NOT have an original available to copy or learn off of.
Regarding this RS remote- there is no 800 number listed in the manual or any mention of UEI, even though we know they are the mfr. How would one get ongoing support, updates, and new codes for modern devices not listed in the setup code table, the "approved" way?
Thanks again for all your help. SO MUCH. Thank you!!!
|Post 17 made on Thursday December 23, 2010 at 00:22|
Some setup codes are intended for TV or VCR or DVD, while others are combo codes for TV/VCR or TV/DVD.
Ultimately, you'll probably want to use the Combo setup codes-- 11922 for VCR/TV and 11948 for DVD/TV, but I recommend that you start using 10047 for the TV, 20522 for DVD, and 20060 for VCR functions. Experiment with these and I think that you'll find that many functions are already in the remote. No point in reinventing the wheel.
You really can't start doing much with the remote until you have the Combo unit running. Otherwise there is no feedback. In the meantime, you can download and install RMIR 2.00
, and download a few upgrade files from the file section there. I particularily recommend RCA TV.rmdu in the TV section, because it has a lot of functions.
You can get EFCs from these files. In general RCA uses the same function numbers (OBCs in JP1-speak) for all components, but changes device numbers, so TV is 15, DVD is 5 and VCR is 14.
Once you start using EFCs, I recommend that you use 11922 and 11948, and add EFCs to those. When you find a function in an upgrade file you can transfer the info to an upgrade which uses the RCA Combo protocol. Transfer the device number and OBC. RM will then display the EFC, which you can enter into the remote. I already linked to the 9XX instructions.
Another source of EFCs and setup codes is the Lookup Tool
. Search for Protocols, using RCA or RCA Combo, and of course the RS 15-134. That will tell you which setup codes are in your remote, and the likely EFCs the correspond to a button.
Don't expect any support from Radio Shack or UEI. Post questions at hifi-remote.com.
|OP | Post 18 made on Thursday December 23, 2010 at 10:45|
I was following you up to this point, but now I'm confused.
What will RMIR be used for? Will I still be manually entering the upgrades using the remote's keypad?
What is your thinking on starting with the single device codes, then moving to the combo codes? Can you describe the sequence of trial run and final run?
Can you give me a step by step procedure (an overview of the general procedure- a "recipe" if you will) for setting the remote buttons? For example (I have no idea what I'm talking about, just for illustration)
1. program generic rca device (single or combo) into the univ. remote
2. test buttons to see what already works, identify special functions not covered
3. find code for special function
--- (how/where to lookup and what to look for? how do i isolate the right data needed?)
4. choose a button to assign function
5. program function into remote (via software? or physical keystrokes?)
--- (what to enter to enable the function?)
6. repeat for next function one by one until all are enabled on remote
In the case of this combo unit, I'm only looking to make a fully working substitute for the original, and then I'm done. I don't currently have an interest in learning all the tricks for general application to any device. In other words, I don't want to "learn to customize remotes", I just want a "customized" remote. If I have to customize it myself, that's fine, but if my skills only applied to this one instance and could not be transferred (but could be repeated if I had to do it again), then I'm happy. If I could have bought an oem replacement from the supplier, I would have just done that, because my immediate interest is in the functionality, not in consolidation.
In addition to the above discussion, I will also indicate to you when I have the unit AND the remote in front of me and ready to program and test.
|OP | Post 19 made on Sunday December 26, 2010 at 21:56|
I now have the combo unit physically with me and installed in its intended location with initial setup done. I also have the 15-134 remote with some basic functions already entered. I have discovered a lot of new information (from playing around with device and several remotes) about the remote, codes, and devices, but I don't want to get into that yet since it might confuse things.
Please continue with your preferred sequence and I'll do my best to respond with helpful feedback. Refer to the above questions if it helps you understand my mindset.
One thing I would like to mention now- you stated previously that "we know" most of the OBCs and EFCs for the RCA devices and that the numbers are usually repeated across devices and models. If that is the case, then I would simply need the correct programming instructions for approx. 14-18 functions that the stock remote has that are not part of the default universal setup.
|Post 20 made on Monday December 27, 2010 at 01:28|
Well, it would be great if you will post which 14-18 functions that are missing. Have you actually tried using 10047 for the TV, 20522 for DVD, and 20060 for VCR functions? Do that and then post which functions are missing. For example, using 20522, I expect that you will be able to bring up the DVD menu and the arrow and transport buttons should work, but I'd like to find out for sure.
Of course, I've tried to get you to just install RMIR and load some RCA upgrades, because then you can read the function names and find the one that are most likely to correspond to the missing ones. It's a lot easier than me guessing which function name matches whatever you're missing. However, I'll probably have to help verify the correct EFC for a given function--the EFCs vary depending on the setup code in use during assignment. That mostly depends in whether you want to try to putmost functions on one device button, or if you would prefer 3 different device buttons for operating the TV, VCR, and DVD. The latter approach is simpler to set up.
Once you have some candidate EFCs, test them by tapping P (Setup), and then entering the 5 digit EFC, holding down the 5th digit for a little bit. The remote will send the corresponding signal. For example, if you're using 20522, tap P, then enter 00016. Maybe that will open/close the DVD tray. (I got that from this upgrade
. Or try 00227/00219 to provide discrete On/Off. That works with standalone DVD players, but I don't know if it will work with the combo unit. If not, try it with 10047. That will send the same function number, but device 15 instead of device 5. Or perhaps both will work.
In post#9, I gave the link to the 9XX Command instructions, but here is the simple version.
After having assigned the appropriate Setup Code,
1) Press P until 2 blinks
2) Enter 994 (2 blinks)
3) Tap P
4) Enter e.g. 00227
5) Tap e.g. PIP
The remote should blink twice.
Now if the unit is off, it should turn on, If it is already on , it should stay on.
|OP | Post 21 made on Monday December 27, 2010 at 10:10|
Sorry if my posts were lacking or if they seemed unhelpful. I was not purposely holding back the information, only hesitating because I didn't know which info to post in what order and I didn't want to confuse you. Also, I didn't want to throw up every single observation I could think of because it might be overkill. I was intending to follow your lead and let you set the pace. I will post a little later today with some of the answers to your inquiries, as well as give you some helpful observations of the behavior I have noticed.
|OP | Post 22 made on Monday December 27, 2010 at 15:27|
Here is where I am so far:
I used 10047 for the TV, 20060 for the VCR, and 20522 for the DVD. I tried the combo codes, but they had fewer working buttons than any of the single codes, so I stopped trying. Even the TV setup alone worked more DVD functions than the TV/DVD combo code.
For 20522, the number or direction buttons don't respond, but if I switch back to the TV setup, those buttons do respond on the DVD.
I was initially missing over 20 functions on the default setup, but I started pushing buttons and found many with a different label, or a strange label on a different device. Example: VCR speed was triggered by pushing the "cancel" button with the DVD selected on the remote.
I have 2 other basic universal remotes (1 GE and 1 RCA brand which I mentioned before). Playing around with these also triggered more functions, but I did not know the EFCs they applied to (although I guess I could use them for learning). I looked all over for the "DVD" function button, which tells the TV to switch to DVD mode, but never found it. Then, on the RCA remote, pushing the DVD/AUX device button not only selects that set of keys, but sent a signal to the unit which switched over to the DVD. I later found this to be the DVD 00027 "on" command which you mentioned above.
Working forward, I confirmed 00016 works to eject in vcr mode, and open/close in dvd mode (thanks!). Then I started to try several others based on the similar function names and trial and error. I have installed RMIR and have the RCA TV file, the RCA DVD file you suggested, and a Proscan VCR file. I also used the lookup tool for clues to some other unusual function names. I am testing these using the direct EFC input manually each time, and I have NOT actually programmed the keys to store these EFCs permanently. I am just writing them down once I have them identified.
I have been able to use trial and error to locate many functions in unexpected places, but as far as I can tell I am *still* missing about 5 functions that I cannot find. They are:
Timer record (very important since it puts vcr in standby for a timer recording)
Main menu/ ATR (main menu in DVD, "auto tracking" toggle in VCR)
TV monitor (lets you temporarily switch to live TV during tape playback)
Cancel (cancels a timer recording)
I have tried many many test codes for all of the above, and have not found them. I didn't try EVERY possible code. I have looked at all the sample upgrade files I mentioned and looked for similar sounding function names, but didn't find anything so far that even sounds close. I don't know how to "load" in RMIR, I only know how to open the program and do a file|open with the .rmdu of the chosen upgrade. I don't know if that's what you meant? I can then at least read the displayed function names and the EFC. BUt at this point I am stumped for those last 5 functions.
Please help me find those 5 EFCs? If you need examples of some other function names/numbers that I used as substitutes for the real function they control, please ask- if that helps. In some cases the names were totally unrelated. Also, if you need me to tell you which EFCs I found to operate which functions, I can do that-- but I don't know if that will do you any good after the info I have already described. Let me know.
Thanks again. We are getting much closer!
|Post 23 made on Monday December 27, 2010 at 17:51|
Kind of hard to tell if the following is useful, but.....
For the EFCs prepend zeros to make up 5 digits. These were pulled from the Files and/or the Features sections here, mostly. Also see this thread
, especially the part about how OBC 58/ EFC 227 works. If ll else fails, you can try the brute force approach of trying every EFC from 0 to 255. Usually, if a function works with one device number, it probably has the same functionality in other device numbers, if it is implemented.
Regarding Timer Record: Many VCRs go into timer record mode when it is shut off. You may want to try discrete Off with the VCR Setup code. Also, I'd try the various Input EFCs, including 144 (Antenna). You'll probably want to try these with both VCR and TV setup codes.
|14||6||2||Reset or Clear|
|14||23||122||Rec / OTR|
|14||60||179||Info or Display|
|OP | Post 24 made on Monday December 27, 2010 at 18:55|
After posting my earlier comments and in the meantime while waiting for your response, I found these additional EFCs:
"Cancel" turns out to be TV/00002
"Timer Record" worked out to VCR/00130 which shows as "alarm" on one code list
I am still completely stumped on the
30 sec adv
Main Menu/ ATR
functions. I would REALLY hate to have to try all 768 combinations by brute force, for several reasons. It's too much work, it could cause problems somewhere else, I could make clerical errors in entry and I'll never know if I did it wrong, or I could come up with nothing for any number of reasons.
How do you suggest I go about this for the most efficient solution? I have not seen any "complete" listing of the RCA function codes, only partial samples with maybe 100 function names between several lists.
As an extra bit of data, several of the EFCs have different results under different device selections. Some of the function names have no relation whatsoever to the actual results of the function it controls.
|Post 25 made on Monday December 27, 2010 at 22:47|
Here a couple more.
Function EFC OBC
Pip Swap 236196
These are from the TV file: RCA All Commands. That's a combo protocol executor, so protocol has to be changed to RCA so that the EFCs are correct for the non-combo setup codes you're using.
How do you know the missing functions exist? For the monitor function, have you tried all the possible input commands (did you try the Ant EFC I suggested earlier) while the VCR is playing?
|OP | Post 26 made on Tuesday December 28, 2010 at 10:18|
On December 27, 2010 at 22:47, 3FG said...
How do you know the missing functions exist? For the monitor function, have you tried all the possible input commands (did you try the Ant EFC I suggested earlier) while the VCR is playing?
Well I don't *know* for 100% sure ;) . But I think it's 99% certain based on looking at the original remote that came with the TV combo, reading the .pdf user manual that I downloaded which describes all those functions, playing with the actual TV and noticing all the other functions that are associated with the missing functions, and the fact that remotes.com offers an aftermarket clone substitute that they claim matches ALL of the original functions and the picture shows all of them. I have no reason to believe that this combo TV lacks any of the stated functions.
Having said all that, I got impatient and began testing all the codes last night by brute force. I found 2 on the first pass using the VCR setup section, and then had a heck of a time trying again on the TV section.
Here is what I discovered:
Main menu/ATR (auto tracking) was found on VCR/00088
30 Sec ADV was found on VCR/00152
---- curiously enough, 152 was labeled as "Cs" (probably for commercial skip) on the RCA TV .rmdu file in RMIR. It was hiding in plain sight!
TV monitor was found on TV/00234
--- "antenna" on the RCA DVD protocol, and "Ant. A/B" in the TV protocol, as you suggested, although the EFC that worked was not 144.
|OP | Post 27 made on Tuesday December 28, 2010 at 10:34|
Now I have some follow up questions that occurred to me as I began learning about all this stuff some 2 weeks ago.
1. Why is there both an OBC and EFC ? What do these acronyms stand for? What is the difference between the two? Is the OBC the same across all brands?
2. If you don't use a cable, does the RMIR program actually "do" anything, or is it just used as a passive application to help you display and read the functions? I'm assuming the software cannot actually perform anything with the remote if it has no connection to the remote.
|Post 28 made on Tuesday December 28, 2010 at 22:56|
We tend to describe IR signals in terms of a device number and function number. The OBC (stands for Original Button Code) is the function number. However, these designations are somewhat arbitrary, and knowledge of the OBC doesn't actually describe exactly the function part of the IR signal. Sometimes the OBC needs to have it's binary digits reversed in order, or complemented (turn 0's into 1's, and 1's into 0's) to match the way the components work.
The remote has an executor (a subroutine) which sets up the frame of the signal (lead in and leadout pulses, get the frequency right, etc.) and then sends the individual bits of the device and OBCs. The data fed to the executor is related to the device/OBC but it may be reversed or complemented. The RCA protocol is simple, and you've been working with a simple executor, but many executors also require data (control bits) to choose among various styles of the IR signal. For ecxample, the most prevalent IR protocol is NEC, but there are actually 4 styles (NEC1, NEC2, NECx1, NECx2) and the executor can send any of these, but it has to be told which one. And, as you've already seen, combo executors can send multiple device numbers.
In RMIR, there is a column labeled Hex. and this is the actual, converted data that is fed to the executor. As it happens, for RCA, no manipulation of the OBC is necessary, and the Hex is just the hexadecimal representation of the OBC.
The EFC (finally got there!) is an encoded representation of the Hex. UEI wanted to protect their knowledge of the OBCs, so they encoded the data being sent to the executor.
And, if you're manually programming the remote, the primary use of RMIR is to carry out the encoding/decoding of EFC to Hex, and from Hex to OBC.
Are you willing to document here the results of your investigation? If you do, I'll make a RMIR upgrade file and post it at hifi-remote.com. Then the next guy who wants to do this will have a pretty easy time of it. (And, it might even come in handy for you later, if you lose your notes.) To make it useful, we need to know which buttons are sending the original signals, and which ones have been assigned an EFC. Of course we also need to know that name of the function, and the EFC used or the button label, if the button is unassigned.
|OP | Post 29 made on Tuesday December 28, 2010 at 23:36|
I am happy to provide a report on what I did and what I found so that future users can use the files. This is especially important because that particular remote is not available from the mfr. or any parts supplier as a direct replacement. I'll try to do that tomorrow.
I need to know exactly what you mean in the above request. I'm confused by when you are referring to the "stock" remote, when you are referring to the UEI remote, and when you are referring to "stock" function names, which buttons (by name or position?), which codes or how you want them described, etc. I guess you could give me an illustration or an actual example or two of an entry on the list you want me to compile.
|Post 30 made on Wednesday December 29, 2010 at 03:12|
I want to make an upgrade file that lists device number and EFC. For some buttons, you have manually entered in EFCs, so for those we need the function name (which isn't necessarily the button label) and EFC and the setup code.
I suppose that there are many other functions for which the 15-134 had the correct EFCs already built in when you got it. For example Vol +/- probably worked out of the box. But we still need to know which device mode(s) controlled volume. We need that for also every other function. So for buttons that did something (but without assigning an EFC), we need the setup code, button label, and the actual function produced. Then I can translate button label into EFC, and setup code into device number.
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