We had a client try to do the same thing then we explained the benifits of buying from us, he decided to go with buying all from us, we then switched his control system to Crestron as he wanted more features of his system, wanted 232 control on a few items with feedback as well as will be adding house audio in a few months

Wire pulling monkey, I would do what you did..tell him sorry, his mistake, his problem
he tried to save a buck and now its costing him, he should have bought from you and gotten the service he deserved by buying from you. Wouldnt sweat it.

when he calms down sell him a MX3000..you have the programming for it, I would be a good guy and offer it at a decent price to him and explain he will get the warranty and service he is looking for. Give him a little extra time and make him feel warm about the purchase, maybe offer a small gift basket as an appreciation from buying from you

For the installer a number of threads back, here is a basic comparison between URC and RTI by approximate price point including the wireless system. Form factor you'll have to personally decide between the two, and I'll leave RF stability out of it as that varies by site location.

MX-850/ MRF300 $600 vs. T1/RP1/Connecting Block and Emitters ~$725 without RF $400 vs. $300 respectively.

Advantages MX-850:
Screen to place custom commands
Favorite Channels

Advantages T1
Variables
More Buttons

MX950/ MRF300 $800 vs. T2+/RP1Connecting Block and Emitters ~$1025 without RF Both $600

Basically MX-950 has labels with buttons next to them or with T2+ has touchscreen instead of buttons. Comes down to personal preference.

MX-3000/MRF300 $1200 vs. T3/Connecting Block and Emitters ~$1625 Without RF $1000 vs. $1200

Without getting into the "frilly stuff" like animations and sounds this is basically a wash of features. Choose the form factor that works best for you.

Receivers MRF-300 $200 vs RP1 $380 vs RP6/RM-433 $750 (I don't use the MRF-250 at all anymore, spend the extra for the 300 IMHO.)

Advantages MRF-300
Comes with emitters
No Connecting Block needed
Adjustable outputs
Multiple Antennas available at extra cost


RP1
Macros and commads built into unit
Power Sensing Module available at extra cost

RP6
Macros and commads built into unit
Power Sensing Module available at extra cost
Video Sensing Modules Availabe at extra cost
RS-232 interface
Adjustable outputs
Multiple Antennas available at extra cost
No Connecting Block needed
Programmable Input/output ports good for relay controls

I hope this gives some users some basic info on the remotes.

Bob

The MRF300 will allow up to 3 antennas, the RP-6 will allow up to 10

The RP1 is a fixed antenna

All RTI remotes have built in batteries and come with Charging stands

Only the URC 950 and 3000 have this

Both URC and RTI will allow multiple base stations
**edit** the URC has up to 16 RF ID's the RTI has 255 ID's

The RTI software accepts Hex codes, while URC has to depend on Pronto software, but hear it will soon

RTI software is 1 program while URC is 4 programs

RTI is for Custom installers only, URC is available everywhere

RTI has only 4 remotes and an inwall panel, URC has lots more 18+

RTI has no consumer tech support, URC does

URC has 5-6 RF base units with another on the way, RTI has 2 with another on the way

**edit** RTI has an awsome Dealer purchase program, URC Not sure on

again its all personal preference. We used URC and it was great for a long time, then we had some problems, we needed to stay in business and find something that would work for us now, tried the RTI and worked, we have shifted our remote sales to RTI for now. URC is aware of the RF issues and when they are resolved we will try it out and see how it goes, if it works I can see a mixed line of remotes to offer to our clients

Both have good and bad points

THe RP1 has the power sensor built in
The RP-6 is by itself and requires the RM433 antenna to be RF

Here's what I'll add.

I have had to contact URC support a few times when I was more of a URC noob. I switched from Marantz remotes - Thank god.

Point 1 - Each time I called, URC had a KNOWLEDGABLE person to help. In hind site, they gave quick yet very accurate info. I had problems with the mrf200's as did a bunch of us. They QUICKLY replaced them.

Most of the RF problems I have encountered personally have been installer inflicted. You just can't mount the mrf250/300 on top of a dvd player, cable box or other. Mount them a little ways away and they work.

Point 2 - I have sent remotes to them to create a code file. They did it in a timely fashion and returned the remote. I can't bitch.

Point 3 - There are several dealers here that support the site that help solve problems. Additionally, it's nice to see Eric around here to help. I just can't help to think that he takes info here and it makes its way to corporate.

That being said, the RTI isn't bad. I have one on my desk. I am not intimate with thr RP6. I should be but haven't seen the need to switch. I do know, in the typical systems I spec that the $600 price point is at the clients threshold of pain not that some wouldn't go for it. I can't say that I would want to support 2 remote lines being a small shop. Its nice being an expert in a single line.

I had 1 job in the last year that broke my balls. The system worked fine for a few days then freaked out on customer training day. NEVER freaked again. Must have been a solar flare.

I have to admit, too, that I was a bit shocked at the price difference between the 2 lines at first. The ir learner is a couple hundred dollars by itself. Now that I've used it though, I understand the reasons.

The ir learner is rock solid. I haven't had to relearn any codes yet, and in the library, you can pull up the hex data you just learned. I'm using it as a learner for crestron as well.

Using RF with RTI is more expensive out the door, but when it saves you 2 hours + of unbillable time in troubleshooting, suddenly it's cheaper than than any of the MRF combos. Granted, not every URC install has rf issues, but you have to be soooo careful with placement to avoid it! With the rm-433, put it where you feel like, and you're probably done.

Another big difference to me is in the software. 2 weeks ago, I had a system with 2 mx-800s, 2 mrf's, 1 media room, and shared sources to 3 revox multiroom amps. 1 of the 800's was dedicated to the multiroom functions. to get IR routing on the mx remotes, I had to copy the revox device 3 times. each source device also had to be copied 3 times to get puchthroughs to each amp. I was out of room to store codes in hidden pages in no time, and I was only using those codes for macros. The customer was never going to see those pages. With RTI's software, you don't have to use up button spaces to put codes on the remotes for macros. When yuo need a macro, you just pull those codes in from the library, to that macro. Much more efficient way of handling automation.

And you can open 3 remotes on 1 screen if needed, and remotes of different types on the same screen as well

I have used the vert program a few times to convert Crestron to Pronto Hex codes, then used those hex codes for RTI and URC.

I have had a few great installs with the URC and RF but had more bad than good.(mostly on the MX3000/MRF250-300)
Im sure the MRF400 will be a huge improvement and looking forward to playing with one. My fingers are crossed and wishing the best to URC to get it to market soon

Eric,

I know you're reading this and I'm sure you're frustrated at times. If you are ever in my neck of the woods let me know, I'll buy the beers. I use URC's products all the time and have not had any problems since the MRF300 has been out. You make great products, so I wanted to voice my positive opinion!

Matt

[Link: remotecentral.com]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I don't understand how this can count as good customer support, when each new update breaks more things. Even Mitch57 is frustrated.....

Hmmm....

Kind of like this?

[Link: remotecentral.com]

it also seemed to be with only my computer on 1 remote, no else seemed to have any issues, My laptop is also close to 4 years old. I tried it on another dell laptop in the office and all was fine.

It didnt seem to affect any of the operations of the remote and was was still able upload just having to unplug the cable as soon as the upload was complete and all was ok

Really....

[Link: remotecentral.com]

It seems that nobody is perfect ;-)

Our technical suport department is expanding constantly. We don't want anyone to go through that kind of wait.

Thanks for jumping in on this thread, Eric ... question, does Universal Remotes have a dedicated tech support line for custom installers?

Oh, and if I may make a suggestion re: hex codes - I'm still amazed/disappointed that URC hasn't included a direct "hex import" feature into the MX editor (in fact, when I asked about this as a RFE at a Universal training seminar a year+ back, the trainer looked at me like I had two heads!). I realize that one can import using the included "universal import" feature, but that's limited to "learned" commands, and it would be much more convenient to be able to directly enter a hex code into the editor.

Your right nobody is perfect. I dont recall anyone stating that RTI or URC was perfect.

I beleive it was a repeating issue with poor RF perfomance and switching brands to a more reliable product

I did the same. I will continue to use both brands, just 1 more than the other until the RF issue is resolved.

There will be new products out from both manufacturers soon and from my understanding URC will have a new Base station that will resolve alot of the RF issues alot of people are experiencing.

Here is a similar thead to connectivity issues
[Link: remotecentral.com]

Im sure we can go back on forth till all of us are dead or tired of reading these posts

URC is an excllent comapny and I do enjoy their products, RTI is an excellent comapny as well. A few of us had issues with RF in our installs and moved to another company to continue Making money on our installs. The RF has been an issue and cost some of us many hours of unbillable time. We have picked up RTI to be able to get in and out on the jobs with a remote. When the new MRF400 is out Im sure many will be happy and return to see the unit.

URC has its pros and cons
RTI has its pros and cons
Just read the last 73 posts...

I have a MX700 for basic code learning and teaching but really havent used it in the last few months because of the RTI learner and ability to import hex codes..including toggle bit codes

could you elaborate, what are "toggle bit codes"? And re: the hex codes - you're talking "Pronto-format" hex codes, right?