I have recently finished my basement. I finally have a home theater that I am happy with and other goodies that mkaes it a little more comfortable. With all this planning, and installing, I think I made a mistake that I was wondering if it could be corrected.

One of the rooms is the game room. It currently consists of a pool table and a dart board. Initially, I wired a volume controller and two speaker rca plug ins. I was planning on using some old B&O speakers in the room and I think this has changed.

I now am planning a 12" shelf on this particular wall with some stools. Floor standing speakers on speaker stands under the shelf doesn't work anymore. I could easily run wires up from the rca box plates but the speakers would then be firing right into our faaces as we sit at the shelf. I was wondering, are there any particular speakers that are in-wall that could be placed approximately 14-16' off the floor? I'm not looking for high fidelity sound in this room, just music to play cards, pool, darts, whatever to.

Thanks for the help.

Mark W

In the UK i use the KEF range of in wall speakers don't know your budget or if KEF are available in your part of the world.
have a look on there web site hope this helps
Bob

Any in wall like RBH,s...Legend... Niles....just select a model that has a gimbel tweeter design that will allow u tweekability....insulate behind when installing

B&W. They come w/ mounting and insulation. A top quality product.

We've done them in areas below columns at the very height you speakof and they work fine. All brands listed will work... may I make a shameless plug for my faves... Bay Audio 780 or JMi(www.bayaudio.com).

Wait...timeout...

14'-16' off the floor

or....

14"-16" off the floor

huge difference in speakers, amps, power AND sound quality here!

Oops...

Good question AVDude

I read inches... not feet

Well, how would 14" or 14' change your recommendations? Neither would be at ear level so even if you were recommending something with an angled tweeter or baffle the recommendation would stay the same, wouldn't it? He said he just wants decent sound, nothing high fidelity so whether at 14" or 14' it should work fine. I would assume it is 14" or he has a petty high basement!

And how in the world would speaker height affect amplifier requirements?

Oh no, fat fingers, I meant 14" off the floor, not 14" Does this change anything?

I currently have B&W in walls throughout the rest of the house and they are very nice.

Mark W

QQQ-

You give me a single - on a thread about my website, designed for the custom installer, months ago, then slam me the next opportunity you have.

Sorry we couldn't make friends, I guess, as I usually really value your input and opinions.

Would you hit a speaker 14" off the floor, and say 6 feet from the listeners ears, with say 50 watts? Ok, sure you would, we all would. Hit the same speakers, 14' off the floor, with the same wattage, from the same source, and the same amp, and you WILL notice a marked difference in sound quality AND volume. Different reflective surfaces, different distances traveled for each sound wave, etc... etc... Takes MUCH more power to move sound 14', than say 14", six feet, or the like. Ever been to a major sporting event, concert or large church? You think they would use 1000 watt (or whatever) QSC, Crown or Rane amplifiers, if those speakers were 3 feet from the listeners heads, instead of 30, or 300....

Moreover, if the spekaer were located at 14" off the ground, EVEN if you had an angled tweeter, in the average size room, this sound might still hit at roughly the listeners mid-torso, not the ears. 14' on the other hand could at least be angled to hit ear-level, even if needing more power or a bigger speaker to get relatively the same sound.

And you know what, regardless of whether he SAYS all he wants is background, he has B&W's everywhere else, so he KNOWS and EXPECTS some level of decent sound.

Funny you mention the basement height thing. I just bought a house w/12' basement ceilings (not 14' but close.) Go figure!

Please come join, I still would value your input on this and many other topics!

avdude
www.integrationpros.com

As frequently happens, Remote Central will not allow me to make a post of any size. So I will try this in multiple posts.

avdude:

Maybe I'm not up on todays lingo but I'm not sure what you mean that I "gave you a single". Are we using a baseball analogy here :-)? I'm also not sure how I slammed you by questioning your post.

Are you telling me with a straight face that in order to recommend an amplifier for in-wall speakers in a *typical home environment* that you need to know whether the speakers are going to go near the floor or the ceiling?


This message was edited by QQQ on 07/20/03 12:48.

The amount of power required for an application is primarily dependent upon the sensitivity of the speaker, the volume of the room and the desired SPL's. The speaker position is largely irrelevant to calculating the power requirements in a home application.

Certainly for sound quality and voice intelligibility, speaker positioning is extremely important. As well as for subwoofer positioning.

With regard to SPL, the greatest variations in the listening area of a room will be in the low bass frequencies which most in-wall speakers don't produce anyway. Furthermore, those variations, which can often be as much as 15 dB throughout room have nothing to do with whether the subwoofer is near ear level per se or not and are dependent upon room modes. Having more power would not affect room modes, which are the biggest factor in SLP variations throughout the room.


This message was edited by QQQ on 07/24/03 21:13.

With regard to speaker selection, my point was and still is that since neither 14" of 14' would be close to ear level and we don't know any other factors such as the layout of the room, I doubted it would change any of speakers recommendations that had been made. I will also say that if I only had two options and had to choose between a height of 14" and 14' I *might* very well choose 14' and use a speaker with an angled baffle (such as a Triad). That might very well be a preferable in a typical room that is full of obstructions (like pool tables).

Thank you for your invite and kind words.


This message was edited by QQQ on 07/20/03 13:39.

I would have to agree with QQQ about speaker placement the 14' level is better than 14".

I understand that purpose for the speakers is to provide ambiant sound/music. Placing them at the 14" level is most likely to result in over pronounced base with the loss of higher frequencies (the higher frequencies losing energy as they run into pant legs, chairs, tables ...etc.). Without knowing the shape of the room I'm unsure why you wouldn't have 1st considered placing the speakers on the shelf versus located somewhere in the corners of the room on a set of brackets (I'm assuming that the games room is a different room than the one with the home theatre) unless there are some interior design issues.

Ultimately, IMHO, in-ceiling speakers would be the best choice for providing ambiant sound for something such as a games room. Also, by placing the speakers higher you will have a better listening experience when your playing pool or darts.

However, the 14" level is the best position for when you're lying on the floor listening to Pink Floyd after you've had a few too many pints watching the room spin just before you pass out ;-)

Cheers

"Dark Side of the Moon"

First album I ever listened to stoned.
Followed immediately by "Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band".

This experience had me smoking dope for about three years, but alas, my drug days are only memories now.

Mark,

If it were me I'd say f--- it and start driiling small holes in my drywall untile I got them out of the way... then put in the Bay Audios. Then you can listen to whatever you like while your patching and painting.