So, by spreading NON TRUTHs about switching AC, you call that 'helping' people...i think not.

"With this set of binary codes I send to the dimmer control unit I can ramp the voltage from 0 to 120 using a set of binary strings to do this. "

This proves to me that you don't know how an x10 or any other remothe controlled AC switch/dimmer works. AC is a sinusoidal waveform, it already ramps from 0 to 186Vp 120 times a second. Dimmers to vary the voltage, they chop the waveform up, varying the duty cycle...that is how dimming is acheived.

Sorry for posting correct information...you don't seem to like that...how sad for you, little one.

sorry..."Dimmers DON'T vary the voltage, they chop the waveform up..."

The very reason some dimmers are so noisy. Like a damn Harley! :)

JJP

I would like to give a simple answer to the original question. First off, This simple question turned into a huge argument and I got tired of reading all of it and didn't read the second half of this thread cause its the same old tech crap that doesnt answer the question, but I do have a simple answer. First off, You mention Power amps. I am not sure exactly what you have, but I have a fair amount of audio knowledge, (mostly professional audio) and can tell you that MOST power amps and some other "older" equipment's on/off switch simply connects and disconnects the hot lead of the AC power, much like your on/off light switch. If there is a on/off switch on a remote or if any led's (like a standby led) come on, then its not the case with yours. Anyway, I used simple relays from radio shack to turn off my amps. For remote control, I use my Carver pre-amp with post-switching power outlets on the back. Any component with this outlet will work without modifying. Since there is not enough power to power my amps (2 soundcraftsmen and an AB int'l) draw more than the carver preamp is capable of providing, I went to radio shack and bought a DPDT relay with a 120 volt coil. This plugs right into the back of the carver (with a wire with an edison plug on the end). Since its a DPDT relay, there are really 2 switched circuits (rated 10 amps each). I simply wired the contacts from the switches together in parallel so I have one switch with a 20 amp capacity. This has been working for me for a few years. If the arking in the relay ever causes it to fail, then replacing the 6 dollar relay is simple since it ca be unplugged from its base (I never had to do this yet). If you dont have another piece of "remote-controllable" equipment with power output, or need more than one channel, I have on occasion seen plans to build infra-red controllable relay panels. It would be a small circuit that decodes the remote control and outputs a 5 or 12 volt signal. From there, you get a 12 volt relay with 120 volt (and proper amperage) contacts. If your amps have switches like all the ones I have worked with, then this should work great for you! Hope that helps! -- Adam

There are 'zero-crossing' relays. They sync to the AC and close or open the switch(solid state) just at right point in the sine wave to prevent surges and spikes.

I can't say what X10s use, but I know they already have to sync to the 60 cycle to perform the X10 communications. It wouldn't surprise me if the X10s that use solid state switches were zero crossing, but the big appliance modules that have traditional relays were not.

Doug

"It wouldn't surprise me if the X10s that use solid state switches were zero crossing"

The only x10 switches using triacs (which are the output devices in solid state relays) are dimmer modules. If the triac could only switch at the zero cross, it would not be able to dim the load. Therefore, x10 , does not use zero cross switching.

Robby,

You are correct, dimmers usually turn on during the zero voltage crossing of the cycle and off mid cycle based on the dim level set. This can generate noise on the AC line if they aren't filtered correctly(try a Magnavox X10 module). But this still doesn't address the question of how the module responds to the X10 on/off commands.

Doug

"dimmers usually turn on during the zero voltage crossing of the cycle and off mid cycle based on the dim level set"

Not quite, the triac is triggered somewhere after the zero crossing (depending on dim level) and turns itself off when the current through it reaches zero (at the zero crossing) triacs cannot be 'turned off' by any other method. The triac can be triggered at 90 degrees, which would result in a huge chunk of current through the load, a byproduct of this is Rf noise.

"But this still doesn't address the question of how the module responds to the X10 on/off commands."

It doesn't really matter how it responds, the point is, there is no 'buffering' of the AC supply voltage through this switch or any other switch.

Robby,

Why is it, you feel that AC current flow can be buffered or not? That statement you make is papostraous. Your incoherint babble has made me stupider for reading it and now I am more stupid than I was when I woke up this morning. Now I am the most stupid person for going to your level to reply on this. If you are trying to make subliminal message as an attack on Larry's knowledge you are doing a good job of it. Today I did some thinking on what I read and the message I wrote.

I believe that Larry and you Robby are both wrong and both right. Here is what I think and I am not trying to deffend Larry because I have no clue as to who he is. Larry is talking about creating a buffer in a software inviroment that stores data as an array as it comes and goes to & from it. Talking a 3rd party control system ofcource. It in return sends bits of information to the microprocessors telling them I have, "this???" you need to now do your Part... Maybe, the microprocessor sends out a small amount of DC/AC voltage to trip a relay closed (say a DPDT 120VAC relay) and the power is alowed to pass. Or like what Adam FLA is doing. Like in a X10 system.

You on the other hand have a preconcived notion of an idea that there is a DTSP switch on the market that has a real tangible buffer of some kind that is connected to the switch and it does something to the voltage. (If this is true please Email a picture to me of it.) Like, I don't know. Maybe you believe a buffer if used in a stereo will make the AC voltage, "sound" better or something. Maybe you believe that a buffer when used on electrical wires will produce a Phase shift in the voltage and have it send In-phase and Out-of-phase wave lengeths at the exact same given time crossing each other out.

If this is it? This is the most absurd thing I have ever heard of. Please tell me this is not true. That you believe there is a switch with a buffer mounted to it. The notion Larry makes by creating buffers in a computer program to carry out a task is exactly correct. Do you as an engineer understand ASCII code strings or can you convert Hexadecimal to ASCII.

Why don't you Mr. Engineer crack this ASCII code string?

089-079-085-082 097 068-079-082-075

This sould be easy, any first year college student studying for an EE degree can break this. Tell me this also. A procedure for solving a mathamatical problem within a finite number of steps that frequently involves a repetition of an operation. IS..................................?

If you are unable to answer these 2 questions right. The best advice I can give to you is go back to teaching your 2nd grade students. I can't wait to hear what other people have to say about this. Fighting is fun Huh? except you started it and I am going to finish it at your Expense. If not for me for everyone else out their.

Let me give you my background:
Graduated college from Princeton in 1962 with a PhD in Mechanical Engineering at age 30
Worked 20 years developing Power generating plants in England, Ireland, and Scottland.
Due to a cut backs in manufacturing power plants I found myself teaching Grad students Computer Science/Engineering at Oxford University from 1982-1992
Retired in 1992 and moved to Northern California in 2000.

Robby,
I'll pray to God tonight asking him to correct your neuro pathic firing patterns! Why don't you forget this ever started, Leave everyone alone, and move on. As Larry Said Remotecentral has to many people wanting to start fights. You damn Yanks need to calm down and get over it.

Everyone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think the original reference to a "buffered AC switch" was something that provides a so-called "soft start".
Meaning, somehow, someway, the "switch" does not go full on, "slamming" the power supply to the equipment, but rather provides power in a way that may be "stepped", or "ramped" to the desired level.

Mind you, I am *NOT* an engineer, and I am not making any claims on the subject. If I am correct in my perceived definition of the originally stated
"buffered AC switch", it seems some are addressing the wrong issue. It would seem the original issue in question has nothing to do with the "control" of the switching device, but rather the switching device's "control" of power delivery to the specified equipment.

Please correct me if I am wrong Larry, Robby, others.

JJP

Tim from California, you sooo educated...so much so that you have an inability to comprehend anything i wrote. I am not the one claiming there is such a thing as a 'buffered AC switch', so , basically, your entire post is moot. Read the post above this, maybe it'll give you a clue, you need one.

and Tim: 089-079-085'082-069 097 067-085-078-084

077-065-089 089-079-085-082 071-079-068
083-084-082-073-075-069 089-079-085

(i corrected your poor grammar)

"It doesn't really matter how it responds(to X10 on and off), the point is, there is no 'buffering' of the AC supply voltage through this switch or any other switch."

It does matter how the modules respond to X10 on/off if we get back to the theme of the thread. IF certain X10 modules used zero crossing logic, then they could be good for powering up/down equipment. You'd have to be careful of the dimmers since they don't typically handle 15 amps and you wouldn't want to accidentally 'dim' your amp.

Zero-crossing relays are much better than conventional AC switches or relays that use contacts. They protect the equipment being switched from surges and reduce AC noise. Large capacity zero crossing relays are available(I've used them in traffic light controllers for switching the lamps) and could be controlled directly by an X10 module.

Doug

". IF certain X10 modules used zero crossing logic, then they could be good for powering up/down equipment. "

True, but they don't. If x10 modules had feed back to the controller they'd be reliable. If x10 modules....But they don't, so the point is moot.

"Zero-crossing relays are much better than conventional AC switches or relays that use contacts. They protect the equipment being switched from surges and reduce AC noise"

yes, i mentioned this in a previous post.

"Large capacity zero crossing relays are available(I've used them in traffic light controllers for switching the lamps) and could be controlled directly by an X10 module. "

How? How would you get a solid state relay to be controlled by an x10 module...and don't tell me you'd feed it with switched 120VAC from the module...that defeats the purpose.

Robby,

Go check out an X10 site. X10 switches that provide 'feedback' are available. An X10 controller can poll these switches for status. I was thinking along the lines of an X10 'Universal Module' controlling the zero-crossing relay. The Universal Module provides dry contacts out that can control the DC side of the relay. Then pick your choice of X10 controller, IR or RF. Sorry, I must have missed your post in support of zero-crossing relays.

Doug

Ok, Ok, Ok, Tim and Robby, Please cool down. This is way out of control. Lets just drop all comments about AC buffering. It was a bad mistake to mention about somthing that I was not clear writting in my statement. What I was talking about, was, as Tim said, was talking to an X10 module via RS232 control. Not a switch or relay with a buffer connected to it. come to think about using the word buffer may have not been right but the word array string command is. which uses buffer control to decode the incomming information. Or a Boolean expression.

Now then, I think Tims 2 questions to you robby that you did not answer and I will answer. The first is a trick question because he wrote it in Hexadecimal and asked to answer it in ASCII.
THE ANSWER IS Y-O-U-R a D-O-R-K

The next answer to question 2 is: Algorithm

Quite supprised you missed both of them.

Now robby you asked Tim to answer a question. I guess I will beat him to it because this is fun:

YOUR ANSWER IS:

Y-O-U-R E-a-C-U-W-T-M A Y-Y-O-U-R G-O-D S-T-R-I-K-E-Y O-U

Pretty impressive for a engineer I must say!!!! I can see the bird nest being constructed between your ears as I crack your less than impressive question.

Robby, I will give you an even easier question.

Lets say you want to buy 1 gallon of 92 octane gas at $1.99 9/10 a gallon. the only money you have on you is $1.00. How many gallons of gas can you buy? is it A: 1 gallon B: 1.5 gallons C: .5 gallon or D: 5.5 gallons. I will post the answer in a few days to alow you think about it.

Good day and good nite Robby

From this point on I will not comment on AC buffering again. consider the issue closed.