Kaso, most of what you will find is nonbuffered. The parts needed to make it buffered are not cheep. So when you have a $15.00 switch like an X10 lamp mod. you can bet that it is not. A lot of manufactures of Audio and Video gear have come up with ways that they have designed, so as their equipment does not need buffering. Again, I am talking about a switch you plug your stereo into, and then the switch into the wall as a means or remotly turning you gear on and off. Some people here are vastly confused on the point I am trying to get across. You may have equipment that goes into standby mode when you power it off remotly. The stereo or TV really is not without power. The power supply is still regulating power through its rails and other related circuts. But the amount of current it draws from the wall socket is far less that it would be powered up at maximum current draw. This method is far less stressfull on the power supply rail and related componets. (When you powering things on and off) Not to mention the Power Supply Capasitors seem to take a beating when slammed with all kinds of curent from the wall socket upon power up that use a toggel switch to supply power or voltage to front end of the power supply. Which depending on conditions and circut design the capasitors could charge and discharge 1,000,000 times or more every couple of seconds. This idea is what helps deliver the current needed to the output transistors of an amplifier IF we were talking about a big hugh power amp for example. By having equipment go into standby mode is a great way as an alternitive way to buffering with a totaly diffrent approach that is far less expensive. I hope this helps you.
Talking about buffered switchs has got'n totaly out of control and this is going to be my final say so on the matter. Again, I hope this gives you a little insight into the matter.

Good luck KASO

To Larry from TN. my fancy AMX system had I had to pay retail and pay for custom programming, I can only guess that retail would have cost around $50K and Programming costs would have been $50-100K if I was doing the programming. For that cost in money I have spent, I can only beleive that my system will do hundreds if not a thousand things diffrent or more than yours will, considering most of what I do calls for custom RS232 protocall's to be written. A lot of the system talks via RS232 not IR or RF. RS232 allows for 2 way communication via a 15 pin computer cable also knowen as a serial cable. Although my system does do RF and IR and does it very well. I don't have to pray every time that when I push a button if it is going to work or not. Not knowing what control system you have. If you have seens that take up to 10 min. to do my system can read 5,000,000 lines of code 5000 times all which I programmed in a matter of 1.5 seconds and execute if need be 255 lines of macros in less than one second. Now that seems fast but in a real world situation for equipment to respond it would most likely see the whole macro done in about 20 seconds, still a far cry from having to wait 10 mins. Any way to answer your question I spent around $20 - 25K for my system and I find it more stimulating than sex.

AMX is not for everybody. You need to find a system that works for you and if you can afford it then buy it. Again this is just another control system that is on the market.

Good luck Larry its good to hear from people that have control or automation in their house.

Larry,

First, I don't *HAVE* to wait ten minutes for my good night and security events to run, I *PROGRAMMED* them to do various things which are spread out over a 10 minute period. i.e. if the garage door is still open 10 minutes after initiating the security even it will then be closed. I was trying to point out the level of sophistication of the automation controller.

I have no doubt that your $20,000 system ($100k-$150k retail) is more reliable and more capable than my $1500 system. It should be. I think you'd be quite surprised, though, at the level of sophistication, AND RELIABILITY, I've achieved for this price. X10 does not "suck", as you put it. It has it's limitations as compared to a system costing, by your figures, as much as 10 times more, but it's very reliable.

Most people can't (or at least shouldn't) afford a $100,000 lighting control system. Heck, I didn't even pay that much for my house! I can get 95% of the features and reliability of your system for a tenth of the price then I'm going to be pretty happy and so will quite a few other homeowners.

BTW, I don't use the cheap X10 brand stuff anymore. All of my swtiches are from PCS. If you haven't seen the PCS switches in action you're in for a surprise at just how far X10 has come.

Larry you are right I have not seen the PCS switches, Therefor I can not comment on them. Thank you for setting me stright on your event timers that do various things over a 10 min. period. I was assumming you were having your system ouput like a 1000 macros at one time or something. And I am sorry if you took it the wrong way. As far as your system doing 95% of mine. I need to disagree as I stated once befor I have been Automatting Homes for 11 years and I have seen Some really lame stuff and some really cool stuff. Also keep in mind I have not seen every peice of automation gear out on the market either. So I would like to think I have an opinion on the matter. Again this is a opinion and not a fact. So find me a remote that can play video into it from a source like a dvd, and still control the DVD at the same time. Show me a remote that I can access through a HTML and real time audio and video right to my computer at work. Show me a remote that I can write a Protocal to E mail me when their is a problem. Show me a remote that I can dial into from any computer and trouble shoot my automation system and test it right through my HTML with never turning on my system or let alone touching it. All for $1500.00 Now granted, my house is not controlled by just a stereo remote. I have a central CPU doing my Automation that always is asking the other equipment what is your power statis and what are you doing and it echo's back a response. That's what automation is all about. Not simply pushing a button on the wall and seing your lights ramp down. Although that's a good start in the right direction. Maybe I need to cut X10 stuff a break and redirect my opinions in a more positive fashion. Automation to me is all about the Subroutine's the more the better the autiomation can be. All thoes IF, Then, and system call commands. The problem is we are not on the same playing field when it comes to control. Its like Religion I guess, You may have one you like and I got one that I like and maybe their teachings are diffrent. Does not mean one is better than the other, or one is wrong and one is right. If I could find a system that can do everything my AMX can for $1500.00 in the same fashion then I will go and buy it. If I thought that Creston, Landmark, or Phast was the best I would have that in my house. Although I believe that AMX is the best (others may disagree) if I thought their was a system out their that could do everything I wanted it to do I would buy it. As with AMX their is no limit. The only limit is lack of knowledge in line code writting. Hell I could run this whole system over fiber optics if I want it to. But I see that as a waist of money. Check out WWW.AMX.COM you will see what it is all about.

My system is run by a dedicated programmable automation controller. That controller has all the IFs and THENs and even some ELSEs. It also has a port which could be connected to my PC to add the remote control and notification features you mentioned.

The AC-2 from RF systems (cost is about $160.00 USD) has what you need. It supports discrete on and off commands for IR control of your equipment. If you buy 2 or more at the same time, the manufacturer will configure each with unique IR codes.

http://www.rfsystems.com

I hope that this helps you out.

So... A very interesting discussion. I'm stuggling with this same problem as are many other sthast are not trying to build the edn all but simoly trying to get control of their AV systems and it always seems there is at least one component that just doesn't follow the rules.

Given that many of the latest devices are designed to go into "standby" mode and not actually OFF (My HDTV for one). Isn't bad for it to actually be turned ON/OFF under any of the scenarios discussed above?

I'll take my answer at college level please.

Craig

Larry...you're clueless...you have NO IDEA what you're talking about...buffered AC switch....give us a break man. There is no such thing as a buffered switch, please man, the only people you're impressing with your made up drivvle are 2nd graders...and even they know more then you.

"Talking about buffered switchs has got'n totaly out of control and this is going to be my final say so on the matter. Again, I hope this gives you a little insight into the matter."

'cause there is NO SUCH THING as a 'buffered ac switch'
And yes, it did give most of us insite into the matter...whats insitefull is the you , Larry, don't know crap about electronics.

What a great thread! I knew I came here for a good reason! Only, I can't remember what for. Oh yeah, the same reason people go to see NASCAR races, the "crash and burns".

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Just joining the fun here! :)

JJP

Robby,

You sure do have a lot of hate towards Larry! In fact if their is only one Larry alot of you have hate towards him. What gives...... Perhaps you have never heard of Buffered ATM switches for network hubs or electrical devices that echo back information on the status of their current operating conditions. (I/O maybe). Or for processing information. AC current can not be buffered, I beleive that was not the point Larry was trying to make, although he did not do a very well job of doing it. I guess he was trying to say switches that switch AC current on and off can be controlled through Buffer management. Switches can and are all the time controlled by buffer input and output strings (if we are talking a protocal)

X10 equipment is and uses buffered switches dispite Larry's short commings. When you press a button on a x10 controller or send it from the computers serial port it sends out a binary code to a buffer in the receiver. The receiver needs to decode the string. IF a 0 is sent at the start of the string I beleive the switches stays off, it see's a 1 first it will react to the 1 and I beleive it will turn on the switch. Also their are many, many, many more factors in the string that play a roll. See [Link: lababid.com] automation/.com this guy does an excellent job telling how it is done.

Again buffered switching is done all too much. We see alot of buffered switching on audio and video equipment on its inputs and outputs. That, and ATM switches are by far the most common types of buffered switching. WWW.trekinc.com makes a high voltage amplifier that uses what they call a Voltage Monitor Buffer circut. It ia a buffered output providing a low voltage replica of what the high voltage output is doing (as I recall). It does this using high speed Op-amps, like a sensor to relay voltage information back to its protocall sub routine or even main routine programs. The program may issues a command telling the equipment to make changes if need be.
Larry makes a point on on/off/standby mode. This is a means of buffered switching. A protocall issues a command to its power sensors to shut down or go into standby.

To give you a better understanding companies that make Pro audio gear like QSC, Rane and some others use buffers in their circuts and in power supplys to echo (RtRx) back status information as to what the machine is doing. Current draw, Heat, power output, and so forth. Rane equipment will compile all this data sort it out and adjust its protocall as needed. It slips my mind on the peice of equipment that does this, but this is just an example of sorts.

If Larry is the bad-ass home automation guru he claims he is he is very aware of buffers needed in his AMX programming to carry out strings of information for doing simple on off control or even complex RS232 Strings of macros. Although myself I am not a Programmer, but I have seen what it takes to make a AMX home automation system to work, And beleive me I would not wish that type of work onto anybody. It sucks. Try writting code in ASCII all day long.

The point that equipment getting "slammed" upon power up is a true statement as Larry said. It is best to just leave your stuff powered on all the time and never turn it off. This may not be practical for many of you but it is what I do.

I am a newbe to this web site. I am trying to learn more about audio and video oponions and answers to questions. I must say their are alot of people that just have no better business than to put down other people for trying to help. We are only people and we are subject to error! I am no expert by any means, but come on buffered controlled switches were being developed in 80's. I'm sure if you do a search on "buffered switches or AC switches" you might come up with a lot more links on switches that are buffered controlled than some of you might think.

I hate to even comment on this subject. On the design of electrical circuits. If don't have a concept of Electrical Engineering what is even the point to talk about switches anyway. You will not understand it. It is like talking Chinese to a Mexican. Again I am just giving my 2-cents.

TIM

After re-reading this I forgot to ask does any of this make since? Pro-ta-call *** DUH!?! protocol. I hope and believe this will help you Robby.

Wow, what a long, drawn out, post of pure crap.
I am an EE, there are no buffered AC switches that. according to you and Larry, 'ramp the AC up' during power on....that is the point of this thread...nothing to do with 'buffered' audio or video (i know about that) and nothing to do with ATM networks.
Basically , Tim from cali, you're talking out of your ass.

oh, and Tim, buffering an audio or video signal is done to isolate the source and load, it is basically and amplifier or voltage follower, used to provide a proper impedance match.
Buffering data on a network is done with memory (RAM)...again...nothing to do with switching AC power.

Whoa, I forgot about this whole Buffered switch thing. Tim thanks for your comments. You are close to the point. Not talking about ATM switches or Buffering the audio or video path either. I was trying to point out as you did a good job doing that, the mechanics of a switch being controlled via a bit stream code. I know for a fact that the Panja controlled AC dimmer cards I install all the time need a set of protocols to define what it will be doing. I need to create buffers to decode as you put it the information I send to it. With this set of binary codes I send to the dimmer control unit I can ramp the voltage from 0 to 120 using a set of binary strings to do this. That Robby is the point I am comming from.
Not the point on how to engenier the switch, Like you think.

No one is in doubt that you are an EE. None of us here have no reason to beleive otherwise. As for your attitude it sucks and I recommend checking into some angermanagement classes.

Tim is right also, too much negativity out their by you and a few others. I will check back to hear your negativity one more time but because of SMALL people like you I wish to no longer post threads on remotecentral. The concept of trying to help one another fails to exsist in people like you robby.

Robby, I hope you have a GREAT DAY!
Tim, thanks again.