I need to generate some Pronto Hex codes from an RC-5 remote. The RC5200 wont recognize the code at all when I try to learn into it. I called KNOX (The Manufactuere) and was told they are using a Philips code (duh...) They actually use a Radioshare OFA remote with the system. Its a 15-2102 Philips VCR codeset 085

Hopefully, this will make some sense to someone (johnsfine) Basically, I need Pronto hex for import into a T2 so long string version, I know MakeHex should do this for me, but I'm not sure exactly h ow to set it up to generate the codes from the information I've been given.

TIA

John

That's strange. I'm not the best person to help you diagnose that. But getting that right may be your best approach.


That tells me less than you might think. Despite the similar model number the 2102 is not one of the RS remotes designed by UEI, so "085" tells me nothing. Maybe others reading this know what it means.

We seem to have just the fact that it is a moderately standard VCR code set using RC-5 protocol. I don't know how many code sets fit that description, maybe just one. I do have ways to find that and may look later.


By "long string" I assume you mean the ones that start 0000 rather than 5000. I hope you understand that means the toggle bit won't toggle. For most devices that means you can never use the same command twice in a row (makes it hard to tune the VCR to channel 11). There are kludgy work arounds to that problem.


What information do you have? Do you have short form (5000 type) pronto hex? Do you have the system code (or address or device number etc., It is called a variety of things) and a set of command numbers?

There are other programs for generating long form Pronto Hex for RC-5. I saw one somewhere in the following site a while back, but am having trouble navigating through it now:
[Link: home.hccnet.nl]

Whatever tool you use, you still need those numbers that are the last two 4-digit values in the 5000 format hex.

A quick look through my library of downloaded signals shows most VCRs using RC-5 use the same set of signals and device number 5. I also have samples of those same signals using device number 6.

Both the common (5) and the rare (6) signals are together in this CCF file:
[Link: remotecentral.com]

The common ones are his Philips VR960 and the rare ones the VR723, but I suspect the VCR is configurable, so it isn't the model number that makes his VR723 use the less common codes.

Much apreciate your help and advice so far John.... This is turning out to be more dificult. It amazes me that a manufactuer doesnt really know what codeset they use other than "Philips VCR"

OK, I was able toConfirm they they are indeed using RC5 System 5 codeset. One hurdle surpassed. Now, is tehre a way to generate BOTH codes (The A and the B) of this RC-5 group? The T2 is able to run a Toggle Macro if I have both codes.

Yes you can easily generate both forms with my MakeHex program. If you like I can email the two sets of command 00 to 63 (I think this doesn't use commands 64 to 127).

What's a Toggle macro?

The common method I've seen in CML files is to find a single function number which does nothing and then construct every learned signal so it is either
a) the do nothing signal followed by the real one or
b) the real one followed by the do nothing

That fixes all the toggle problems, but it makes all the learned signals twice as big and gives you the ugly choice between.
a) Latency added, so there is a fraction of a second lag from the button press to the real command or
b) Cutting off the repeat, so the real command goes out as a fixed number of frames and stops even if you continue to hold the button.

MakeHex can build those compound learned signals as well (given the function number for the do nothing function).

the T2 has many cool functionalities, one of them is to make a button have two different codes ,and every time you push it it toggles from one to the other (for instance, you can putt FF and play, so that way while watching a taped show you push the button when an ad comes on and it fast forwards until you push the button again and then it goes back to play mode)


but I don't know if this is a good solution. let's say the VCR is at A
and you want to press 123 and the remote is now 1 at B 2 at A and 3 at B

you press 1, and send 1B, press again to send 1A, then you press 2 and send 2A, and need to press the 2 a second time, and then the 3 two times, so it took you 6 presses to go to 123 instead of 3, and you need to pay attention. I am not sure how the condition statements work, but that might be better If val=A then (send 1B val=B) else (send 1A val=A)

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I think you're making a wrong assumption about how things work in RC-5.

Some remotes have a global toggle so when you press 121 you might get 1A 2B 1A.

Some remotes have a local toggle so when you press 121 you might get 1A 2A 1B.

I think I once got information on a device that required the toggles to work exactly as its remote did them, but that is very rare. Most RC-5 devices only need each command to differ from the prior command in either function or toggle.

They not only are equally happy with either "1A 2B 1A" or "1A 2A 1B", but also happy with "1A 2A 1A"

Only "1A 1A" fails and even then the majority will take "1A pause_a_few_seconds 1A".

John, highest command that its using is 29 I think, So if you could email those to me that would be great... I did manage to get them learned into the T2, but would be much mire confident if I had the actual hex.

Anthony.... Factory remote works the same way. Alternates in sequence. The primary reason RC-5 works this way is to avoid componants receiving "11" instead of just "1" The VCR (Or whatever) doesnt care whether the key is "A" code or "B" code as long as it doesnt see the exact same code twice in a row.

I just now emailed those. Sorry about the delay.

Many thanks john, the codes worked out well.

now... For what happened on the job.....

I used these codes my Keypad with the T2 Toggle Macro. Keypad worked pretty reliably. Hicupped a little bit but thats not the strange part.

When I built my macros they were not working at all. after much experientation, I found that using alternating groups workes 80% of the time.. so my macro looked like this

0e
1o
0e
1o
enter-e

This set Camera 1 to Output one. where
0e
1e
0o
1o
enter-e

didnt work at all.

Finally, I added a "dummy" code pre macro steps so an odd key sequence was always the last sequence seen before the macro and they started working 95%. (5% is due to the fact that the switcher seem to react too slow to change outputs with 10 seconds of a previous command)

Just thought I'd throw that out there and see of it made any sense to someone.

I wonder if you're really seeing an odd/even effect as you report, or if it's really a timing effect (the odd/even choice may have some tiny effect on the timing behavior).

Do you have a delay between steps in a macro or do you string them together as your message seems to indicate?

I tried various time delays, but in the end, no delay between steps works the best. From the OFA remote, I can fire the codes in pretty rapid sequence with no problem or hicup at all from the unit.

I just though this was extreamly odd because it goes against everything I thought I knew about RC-5....