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Topic:
Horse De-Wormer OD's are filling up Hospitals
This thread has 124 replies. Displaying posts 76 through 90.
Post 76 made on Wednesday January 12, 2022 at 12:28
tomciara
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On January 9, 2022 at 17:31, Hi-FiGuy said...
Not what I am being told from my "in the trenches" family and friends, they call BS on most of this reporting.

There are lots of reports from doctors actually treating patients successfully rather than sending positive testing patients home to “see if they get better”.

Honestly, when in our lifetimes have we not had a treatment protocol for an illness or a disease?  Does anyone know of the CDC publishing such protocols?  Regardless of your stance on this thing, does that not sound odd, as tens of thousands die?

”You would feel differently about (vaccines, masks, you name it) if it was your grandmother dying!!”  I have heard and read this multiple times on forums and groups.  If my grandmother were dying, I would love to give her a chance with hydroxychloroquine (safe drug for nearly 80 years) or ivermectin (got a Nobel prize for two scientists in 2015) rather than a hope and a prayer! Unlimited upside (survival) and no downside (both are on the World Health Organization’s list of safe and essential drugs) seem like a great option.  Yet they have been snuffed out in the marketplace in favor of billions in profit for BigPharma solutions.  Doesn’t anyone think it is odd for even a second?
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
Post 77 made on Wednesday January 12, 2022 at 12:42
tomciara
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On January 9, 2022 at 16:37, buzz said...
Here is an October 15, 2020 presentation outlining the Moderna vaccine development. Obviously we know more details at this point, but an interesting comparison in this early data is the vaccine's effectiveness compared to natural immunity developed during infection.

Another point to note is how quickly a vaccine candidate was developed after the DNA sequence was available. Compare this to the historic development schedule. Now, we have much better tools at our disposal and should be careful when comparing "traditional" (old) methods with current technology.

Buzz you are right that the speed of development is amazing and unprecedented. The one thing we don’t have in this development is assessing issues over time - and it may take 2, 5, 10 years or much more to see if there are long term effects.

And it has always been up to the patient to assess side effects when deciding whether or not to take any medicine.  You probably know this is a key tenet of th Nuremberg Code.

The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision.”

A doctor friend of which I have referred earlier indicated that in medical school, this was absolutely drilled into every student. To give a patient a drug without consent, even if it may be life-saving in nature, is considered to be “inflicting harm” and shall never be done.
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
OP | Post 78 made on Wednesday January 12, 2022 at 18:07
davidcasemore
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On January 12, 2022 at 12:28, tomciara said...
  If my grandmother were dying, I would love to give her a chance with hydroxychloroquine (safe drug for nearly 80 years) or ivermectin (got a Nobel prize for two scientists in 2015) rather than a hope and a prayer! Unlimited upside (survival) and no downside (both are on the World Health Organization’s list of safe and essential drugs) seem like a great option.  Yet they have been snuffed out in the marketplace in favor of billions in profit for BigPharma solutions.  Doesn’t anyone think it is odd for even a second?

I'm so glad I'm not your unlucky grandmother.
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
OP | Post 79 made on Wednesday January 12, 2022 at 18:16
davidcasemore
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On January 12, 2022 at 12:28, tomciara said...
...they have been snuffed out in the marketplace in favor of billions in profit for BigPharma solutions.  Doesn’t anyone think it is odd for even a second?

Don't you think your argument is odd? Wouldn't "BigPharma" (not really a thing) want to profit from the two drugs you keep pushing? They can simply change the name, alter the formula a smidgen, and change the "prescribed-for use" to profit highly off of the newly-purposed "old" drug, patent it for this new purpose, and make millions. But No! "BigPharma" has decided to "snuff them out in the marketplace".
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
Post 80 made on Wednesday January 12, 2022 at 20:21
tomciara
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On January 12, 2022 at 18:16, davidcasemore said...
Don't you think your argument is odd? Wouldn't "BigPharma" (not really a thing) want to profit from the two drugs you keep pushing? They can simply change the name, alter the formula a smidgen, and change the "prescribed-for use" to profit highly off of the newly-purposed "old" drug, patent it for this new purpose, and make millions. But No! "BigPharma" has decided to "snuff them out in the marketplace".

David, they can do what they want, but these are generic drugs, and doctors are always willing to give you the generic versions instead of the expensive ones.

You can pay more for Motrin or Aleve, but you’d be better off getting ibuprofen and naproxen. Save you a few bucks for some electronic toys.

Wall Street and big Pharma used to be cast as villains by most liberals. I think Wall Street still may be, but big Pharma has been embraced as heroic by the media these days. Unusual about-face.  Speaking as an observer, not really judging one way or the other.
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
Post 81 made on Thursday January 13, 2022 at 09:30
buzz
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On January 12, 2022 at 12:42, tomciara said...
| A doctor friend of which I have referred earlier indicated that in medical school, this was absolutely drilled into every student. To give a patient a drug without consent, even if it may be life-saving in nature, is considered to be “inflicting harm” and shall never be done.

I suppose we could debate if a vaccine is a "drug", but the overall population is not protected if too many patients refuse to be vaccinated. Certainly, those who will almost certainly have a significant adverse reaction to the vaccine should not receive it, but these cases will be sufficiently sparse for a well researched vaccine. We could debate about the COVID vaccines being "well researched" because they were developed on a faster track compared to the legacy vaccines.

Once we have a proven effective vaccine, is failure to administer it to the masses "inflicting harm"?

Last edited by buzz on January 13, 2022 10:43.
Post 82 made on Thursday January 13, 2022 at 12:28
tomciara
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On January 13, 2022 at 09:30, buzz said...

| I suppose we could debate if a vaccine is a "drug", but the overall population is not protected if too many patients refuse to be vaccinated. Certainly, those who will almost certainly have a significant adverse reaction to the vaccine should not receive it, but these cases will be sufficiently sparse for a well researched vaccine. We could debate about the COVID vaccines being "well researched" because they were developed on a faster track compared to the legacy vaccines.
Once we have a proven effective vaccine, is failure to administer it to the masses "inflicting harm"?

I think you are off track just a tad.  You are assuming we would know in advance who will have an adverse reaction - completely unknowable. And inflicting harm in hippocratic speak never includes NOT giving meds.

Yes, it’s a fine point, drug vs. vaccine - I certainly agree to disagree.  A vaccine traditionally uses dead virus cells, a la flu vaccines.  This shot is not that, it is mRNA, a totally different animal.  And in deeper reading, one reason for longer term testing is to make sure they don’t begin to PROMOTE variants and increase susceptibility to catch the virus.  This is understood as some of the risks by those who have developed and researched mRNA products.

And I fall back on the indisputable part - no matter how much research is done in a period of several months, you won’t know the long term, possibly life long side effects.

And that is where is sensible to consider, “Do you have a likely chance of dying from Covid (based on age and real statistical data) vs. the unknown of future side effects?”

Thanks for the sane back and forth, by the way!

Last edited by tomciara on January 13, 2022 13:48.
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
OP | Post 83 made on Thursday January 13, 2022 at 18:42
davidcasemore
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On January 12, 2022 at 20:21, tomciara said...
David, they can do what they want, but these are generic drugs, and doctors are always willing to give you the generic versions instead of the expensive ones.

I guess you didn't read what I said. I will try again:

When a patent on a drug ends, and the drug is then available as a generic, the pharmaceutical company that created the original drug can make just a slight change in the chemical make-up, rename it, and say it's for treating whatever new disease they want ("It's not just for horses anymore! Now it treats COVID!).

The fact that they aren't doing that (and losing millions of dollars) is because it does not work for treating COVID.
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
Post 84 made on Thursday January 13, 2022 at 19:54
tomciara
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On January 13, 2022 at 18:42, davidcasemore said...
I guess you didn't read what I said. I will try again:

When a patent on a drug ends, and the drug is then available as a generic, the pharmaceutical company that created the original drug can make just a slight change in the chemical make-up, rename it, and say it's for treating whatever new disease they want ("It's not just for horses anymore! Now it treats COVID!).

The fact that they aren't doing that (and losing millions of dollars) is because it does not work for treating COVID.

The generic can still be produced and used.

And works 100% better than “go home and see if you are better in a few days” (AKA a hope and a prayer).
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
Post 85 made on Friday January 14, 2022 at 18:27
tomciara
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Worth your time. Take in as many data points as possible.

[Link: open.spotify.com]
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
OP | Post 86 made on Friday January 14, 2022 at 21:43
davidcasemore
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On January 14, 2022 at 18:27, tomciara said...
Worth your time. Take in as many data points as possible.

[Link: open.spotify.com]

Joe Rogan? Are you seriously kidding me? And that doctor DID NOT invent mRNA vaccines:

[Link: nature.com]

[Link: forbes.com]

[Link: logically.ai]

I could go on, but I'm getting tired of looking at all of the web sites that debunk the nonsense you and others are selling. It's time for you to put your big boy clothes on.
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
OP | Post 87 made on Friday January 14, 2022 at 21:49
davidcasemore
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On January 13, 2022 at 19:54, tomciara said...
The generic can still be produced and used.

But your argument was that "BigPharma" is stopping the use (some how) of these generics for some unknown reason (1. Steal Underwear. 2. ? 3. Make Profit). You are speaking in circles. The big money would be in creating a new patent for the horse dewormer, in the ways I mentioned, and then selling the updated medicine at a high cost for treating COVID. But they aren't doing that because it doesn't work for treating COVID!

Thinking that it does won't make it happen.
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
Post 88 made on Saturday January 15, 2022 at 01:22
tomciara
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On January 14, 2022 at 21:43, davidcasemore said...
Joe Rogan? Are you seriously kidding me? And that doctor DID NOT invent mRNA vaccines:

[Link: nature.com]

[Link: forbes.com]

[Link: logically.ai]

I could go on, but I'm getting tired of looking at all of the web sites that debunk the nonsense you and others are selling. It's time for you to put your big boy clothes on.

You have your pet narrative websites so forget that.

You ought to at least listen to the podcast.  Then look up his credentials.  Don’t take nature.com (for real?) as the last word.

Malone has 10 patents going back to 1989 on mRNA.
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
Post 89 made on Saturday January 15, 2022 at 01:28
tomciara
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On January 14, 2022 at 21:49, davidcasemore said...
But your argument was that "BigPharma" is stopping the use (some how) of these generics for some unknown reason (1. Steal Underwear. 2. ? 3. Make Profit). You are speaking in circles. The big money would be in creating a new patent for the horse dewormer, in the ways I mentioned, and then selling the updated medicine at a high cost for treating COVID. But they aren't doing that because it doesn't work for treating COVID!

Thinking that it does won't make it happen.

Whoa.  I read that three times - talk about going in circles.  You keep this dream going (no, they couldn’t have done that!)

You may have heard how Florida was treating covid successfully with monoclonal antibodies.  You probably hadn’t heard the Biden administration cut their allotment in half.  Politics is more important than saving lives, after all.  [Link: theepochtimes.com]

Listen to the podcast.  It’s documented how hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin have been made unavailable.

They started with fake studies designed to fail. Wrong doses. Subjects that biased the testing. The list goes on.

Last edited by tomciara on January 15, 2022 01:38.
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
OP | Post 90 made on Saturday January 15, 2022 at 03:08
davidcasemore
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On January 15, 2022 at 01:28, tomciara said...
You may have heard how Florida was treating covid successfully with monoclonal antibodies.  You probably hadn’t heard the Biden administration cut their allotment in half.  Politics is more important than saving lives, after all.  [Link: theepochtimes.com]

You know, you used to not be so crazy. Pre-COVID and pre-2020 election we had a lot of differences for sure. But you weren't like a few people on here ("Harry" Tuttle comes to mind) that seriously needed tin foil hats. But now you've become just like they are. I can send you links to stories that come from local papers, national papers, international papers, AP, Reuters, The BBC, Agence France-Presse, and a hundred other well-regarded sources and all you have is Joe Rogan and Epoch Times? You are so far down the rabbit hole with the QANON and MAGA folks that I'm now wondering if you were at the Capital on January 6 of last year. Perhaps you are currently in Dallas waiting for the return of JFK or JFK, Jr? It's not too late for you to come to your senses. Good luck with everything.
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
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