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Donald Trump - Apple & the conservative philosophy
This thread has 17 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Friday January 22, 2016 at 11:16
BizarroTerl
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On 1/18/2016 @ Liberty University in Virginia, Donald Trump was giving a speech and he said the following:
"I was saying make America great again, and I actually think we can say now, and I really believe this, we're gonna get things coming... we're gonna get Apple to start building their damn computers and things in this country, instead of in other countries."

Isn't this contrary to the less government philosophy? What would the Republican caucus do if Obama mandated Apple or GM be forced to bring all production back to the US?

And as far as business acumen is concerned, his statement is quite alarming. The reason Apple has their products built in other countries is because it is less expensive. They compete in a global market. A significant increase in their cost would result in a large erosion of their market share. Keep in mind they're already at the high $ end of the market. Anyone with a modicum of business sense understands this.

Trump is either saying that if he is elected President he will have government determine how a company can run their business, well beyond the current crop of regulations, or he will make the conditions here such that they will bring it in country. How can he do that?

Costs for any product can be broken into 3 parts - materials, labor, and overhead. Let's look at them.
Overhead - this is the cost of administration (engineering, accounting, business management, shipping, facilities, utilities,advertising, etc.) that is required to produce a product. This cost isn't directly based on volume. With high volume this ends up being a very, very small part of the cost of a individual item being sold. Apple would probably see a very small increase in overhead costs moving production to a US based manufacturer. They may even see a decrease as shipping and time zone issues would be lessened. Lessening of current government regulations would have minimal if any impact at all.
Materials - Building it here or there won't have much if any impact. Apple's volumes are so large they are getting the best prices possible. Having the parts shipped to Michigan instead of Shanghai won't make a real difference.
Labor - This is the core cost issue. The manufacturers that build iphones now are notorious for ruthlessly keeping labor costs low. They pay their employees a bare minimum and with forced living in company housing take back as much as they can.

So the only real place for Trump to entice large volume manufacturing back to the US (other than just making them do it) is to address the wage issue. For US workers to compete with this our hourly labor rate would have to be much lower than the current minimum wage. Have you tried to live on minimum wage?

As President, along with congress, Trump could lower the minimum wage to allow the US to compete with Chinese manufacturers. The only question is, who would be willing to work for those wages?

Last edited by BizarroTerl on January 26, 2016 14:38.
Post 2 made on Saturday January 23, 2016 at 14:47
kgossen
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Hilarious. To think if he was elected he would do anything but line his pockets and those of all his 1% buddies is f*(king funny.

The only way Apple would ever move production to the states is if they legalize 7 year olds to work a full 8 hour day. Apple tops the list of US scumbag companies.
"Quality isn't expensive, it's Priceless!"
Post 3 made on Saturday January 23, 2016 at 23:20
Mr. Stanley
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B b b but Sarah Palin will have a spot in his cabinet. America will be great again. Trump says so.
"If it keeps up, man will atrophy all his limbs but the push-button finger."
Frank Lloyd Wright
Post 4 made on Monday February 8, 2016 at 12:17
Ranger Home
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He never said he would "force" apple to produce in america.

Sounds like some agree that our policies, regulation and taxes are just perfect for American corporations. Well lets just stay on the path we are on and elect Hillary or Bernie. See where that leads us.
OP | Post 5 made on Wednesday February 10, 2016 at 16:22
BizarroTerl
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On February 8, 2016 at 12:17, Ranger Home said...
He never said he would "force" apple to produce in america.

And neither did I. Did you actually read my post or just immediately jump to a conclusion because "conservative" was in the title?
Post 6 made on Friday February 12, 2016 at 01:57
tomciara
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Maybe more government subsidies like foreign governments routinely provide.
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
OP | Post 7 made on Friday February 12, 2016 at 12:20
BizarroTerl
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On February 12, 2016 at 01:57, tomciara said...
Maybe more government subsidies like foreign governments routinely provide.

Good point. Though I wonder how that would go with his constituency - big government giving money it doesn't have to rich companies.

Of course, the actual details of how something is to be done aren't important when politicians are running for office. The press and the voters don't care.
Post 8 made on Friday February 12, 2016 at 16:08
Bubby
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The easiest way is through incentives. Give them a lower tax rate to move the jobs back here. The taxes on the wages of the employees will more that offset the lack of taxes Apple would not pay.

And by incentives, I don't mean giving them taxpayer money like Solyndra. Of course the other incentive would be to tariff the crap out of every iPhone/iPad that comes into the country.
Post 9 made on Friday February 12, 2016 at 17:31
Mac Burks (39)
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A lower tax rate? LOL they pay nothing now. The best way is to tax all imports heavily...like 300%. Do you think walmart would close up shop and leave the United States if the government asked them for an extra billion in taxes? What do you think Apple would do if the US forced them to pay tax for money they hide overseas? They need the American consumer and its time they start paying for the privileged to sell their goods and services here.

Giving a solar company a check is exactly the same as giving general electric a rebate. It's taking tax dollars from everyone and handing them to specific individuals...and in those cases...wealthy individuals who don't need the welfare.

It's a joke that raw materials are shipped from here to other countries where they are refined and turned into products that are then shipped back here for sale. If we want all the jobs back that go between digger and store clerk we need to penalize Anti-American companies that don't want to fully participate in the American way of life. If they want to build in China and hide money in Europe they can pack their bags and move there. And they can enjoy an extremely high import rate for the products they want us to buy.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 10 made on Saturday February 13, 2016 at 10:01
Bubby
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On February 12, 2016 at 17:31, Mac Burks (39) said...
|If we want all the jobs back that go between digger and store clerk we need to penalize Anti-American companies that don't want to fully participate in the American way of life. If they want to build in China

I agree 100%. But here is the problem. Everyone likes their $99 Blu-Ray player and if they have a job, then they don't care where it is made. It used to be a few companies would make similar products in the US and they cost a little more for those will to pay for Made in the USA. Now it seems you can't even find those.

A very good friend of mine from college is one of the 1400 Carrier employees whose job is being moved to Mexico. As such, I will never buy another Carrier product and another mutual friend is going to no longer spec Carrier for the commercial buildings his company designs. The average consumer is going to have to take a stand and pay attention to something real instead of being offended because the barista at Starbucks used 2% instead of skim.
Post 11 made on Thursday February 18, 2016 at 05:55
Mr. Stanley
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OK well, Trump, quit having your clothing made in China and Mexico for starters! F-ing hypocrite! Jeezus.
"If it keeps up, man will atrophy all his limbs but the push-button finger."
Frank Lloyd Wright
Post 12 made on Monday February 22, 2016 at 02:01
tomciara
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On February 13, 2016 at 10:01, Bubby said...
|If we want all the jobs back that go between digger and store clerk we need to penalize Anti-American companies that don't want to fully participate in the American way of life. If they want to build in China

I agree 100%. But here is the problem. Everyone likes their $99 Blu-Ray player and if they have a job, then they don't care where it is made. It used to be a few companies would make similar products in the US and they cost a little more for those will to pay for Made in the USA. Now it seems you can't even find those.

A very good friend of mine from college is one of the 1400 Carrier employees whose job is being moved to Mexico. As such, I will never buy another Carrier product and another mutual friend is going to no longer spec Carrier for the commercial buildings his company designs. The average consumer is going to have to take a stand and pay attention to something real instead of being offended because the barista at Starbucks used 2% instead of skim.

I applaud your stand and believe it would make a difference if all followed your lead. But there is the rub, if you are accustomed to $99 blu-ray players, you will not be happy with the same plastic junk for $199 and feel like your government just gave you the shaft. And while you are at it, you will assume they lined their pockets at the same time. This is a no win situation.

A friend of mine, about 10 years ago declared he would not buy Chinese products because they had such a poor record of workplace and human rights violations. I applauded him for his stand but doubted whether it would make a difference. Back then, it was his computer monitor he was prepared to replace with a non-Chinese product. 10 years later, if he wanted to outfit his home and office with non-Chinese products, he would have to live without some stuff altogether.

Like it or not, we have a global economy and business is about producing products and selling them as competitively as possible. When I was a kid, the first products were dribbling in from Japan. It was junk. If it said "Made in Japan" on the back, you knew you just bought a pile of junk. Fast forward to 30 years later and they had the best cars, best electronics, etc. Japanese labor was cheap, and that was the fuel that ran manufacturing efficiently. The Japanese workers then saw what the developed world was like and wanted their share. Their wages went up, they became less competitive. Computer monitors and cars started coming out of Korea because the workers there worked for nothing. The pattern repeated itself. We saw our favorite brand Integra go from making all their electronics in Japan, to Japan for the high end and Malaysia for the entry level. More and more shifted to Malaysia. Then China came online... the pattern will forever repeat itself. Next in line after China? Who knows.

Return production to the US? Go from $5 a day in an underdeveloped country to fifteen bucks an hour in Stanleyland? Surely you are joking, or live in la la land. Never on a large scale. Rarely on a cost effective basis. A few select companies can do it, but only with specialized products.
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
Post 13 made on Thursday February 25, 2016 at 22:38
simoneales
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The company i work for imports and sells a Chinese made product that is re-branded for sale here like almost every product of it's type on the market.

I have visited several factories and exhibitions in China and i can tell you that i have never seen sweatshop conditions and child labour and all the other things that westerners assume about Chinese production. The working life is certainly different to yours and mine as most Chinese workers travel great distances from their homes to work in the factories located in industrial areas and often live in company housing except during the holiday periods. It's true that the average Chinese worker only gets about $2 per hour, but that $2 is more of a liveable wage than the minimum wage for unskilled workers in the united states (think about that for a minute). While wages are low, so is the cost of living. The biggest issue regarding quality is training staff. Most workers come in from country areas and did not grow up around electronics and such, and their education is not as good, so the training needs to be very thorough. Because the Chinese workers are ambitious as a rule there are a lot that don't return to their jobs after holidays as they have secured other (hopefully better) jobs in the meantime. This means that few factories can maintain a consistent well trained workforce that can produce consistent quality. Those that can, produce the same quality you will find anywhere in the world. In my industry (Tubular motors) even the biggest well known European brands still have the majority of their products made in China. Some even outright lie about where they are made, claiming that products that are Chinese are actually made in Spain, Italy, Germany or France.
I guarantee I'll tell you the truth and I guarantee I'll tell you what you need to know but I can't guarantee that I'll be telling you anything you want to hear.
Post 14 made on Friday February 26, 2016 at 09:54
Bubby
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On February 22, 2016 at 02:01, tomciara said...
I applaud your stand and believe it would make a difference if all followed your lead. But there is the rub, if you are accustomed to $99 blu-ray players, you will not be happy with the same plastic junk for $199 and feel like your government just gave you the shaft. And while you are at it, you will assume they lined their pockets at the same time. This is a no win situation.

I did try. My BR player is an OPPO. Still a Chinese company and made in China, but at least that division of the company is based in CA similar to Apple. Designs here, build elsewhere.

The bottom line is that a large number of US workers suck. A fraternity brother from college is one of the 1400 Carrier employees whose jobs are going to Mexico. While he is mad, he completely understands why. The workers at his factory don't want to work.

For example, based on the union work rules, the write-up for being 10 minutes late is the same as being 2 hours late. So if someone is going to be late, they just wait until the 2-hour mark and then show up. By that time the production line has made adjustments for them not being there and now has to make new adjustments when they show up.

The biggest problem in this country is you can't fire a worker easily. If workers knew they could be fired if they screw off then maybe they would be better workers.
Post 15 made on Saturday February 27, 2016 at 01:35
tomciara
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Hmmm, unions...

On February 26, 2016 at 09:54, Bubby said...
The bottom line is that a large number of US workers suck. A fraternity brother from college is one of the 1400 Carrier employees whose jobs are going to Mexico. While he is mad, he completely understands why. The workers at his factory don't want to work.

Hmmm,

For example, based on the union work rules, the write-up for being 10 minutes late is the same as being 2 hours late. So if someone is going to be late, they just wait until the 2-hour mark and then show up. By that time the production line has made adjustments for them not being there and now has to make new adjustments when they show up.

Unions...

The biggest problem in this country is you can't fire a worker easily. If workers knew they could be fired if they screw off then maybe they would be better workers.

Well, the common thread is...
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
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