For one, cars and trucks are licensed, visibly. If a license were required for a gun, it would be too small for most people to see and if it was an RFID tag, I would bet that privacy concerns would be raised because it could be scanned from a distance through the act of someone in Law Enforcement when it's concealed. While I like this in the event that someone is in possession illegally, I don't really like it as a private, law-abiding citizen. If this could be done in a way that it can't be easily defeated, it would make finding lost, ditched or stolen guns a lot easier.

We are required to make notice when we sell a car or truck, but it's pretty hard to hide one, unlike a handgun. Yes, people use cars when they commit crimes, they aren't usually the weapon of choice. OTOH, people buy and sell cars without telling the DMV, all the time. Usually, the title isn't signed and it could go through several buyers before someone totals the car, steals it or abandons it- these cars tend to be priced low because they're used as a disposable item- it's cheaper to buy a POS car and drive it until it drops than to spend the cash on a good car, then title it and maintain it. They usually have temporary plates and belch smoke because they haven't been maintained well, if at all. Go to a gas station in a bad area and you'll see people putting $3 worth in because that's all they have.

Illegal guns change hands frequently, too. It's not a good idea to keep one for long and can travel around the country for years before they're revocered or destroyed.

There are no easy or popular answers. Bad behavior is learned by people in circumstances they can't control and it can be justified in many ways. When children are raised around people who can't make a good decision if their life depended on it, they end up in the same position, later.

People need to think before they act, but when their choice is to be the aggressor or be a victim, they'll be the aggressor. People in MKE are really getting tired of the violence, though. I really would like to see them make a difference.

Sad.

A similar fate befell my collection.
Damn tragic boating accidents. =(

10-4....what im saying is those criminals that are denied a permit will just go get illegal guns, its real easy.
The guy that gets denied for whatever reason but isnt a hardcore criminal wontbe buying one off the street...

And that's why we have so many straw buyers. The new "Are you buying this gun for yourself? question could weed out a lot of people, if they would only tell the truth. If they're willing to be a straw buyer, they're already breaking the law, but the gun(s) need to be found in possession of a criminal and/or recovered during the investigation of a crime in order to connect the dots.

Also, the car analogy is invalid.
No license/registration is required to own a motor vehicle.

One can buy/sell cars at will sans government oversight.
It is only when vehicles are operated on public streets is when licensing/registration comes into play.

I could go on Craigslist right now and buy a car for cash, no waiting period, no background check, no ID needed.

Also, my copy of the Constitution does not have the amendment that outlines the "right to keep and drive cars".

Does have something about arms and infringement though.

There are a myriad of reasons why places like Chicago are as violent as they are. Longstanding social issues that could have entire threads dedicated to them.
Guns or the lack thereof is not the root cause.

The government and its regulations ARE the answer, right? They have proven time and time again that the government is the answer to everything. Mac thinks so.

I fear the government far more than I fear any criminal!

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."-Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson

"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first".-Thomas Jefferson

lol this thread is funny. ignorance FTW

When TJ was worried about it everyone had muskets. Today our governments ability to squash you and your pea shooters like a roach, is much greater.


And if they ever do try and "take it" you will lose. Google "waco" or "branch davidians" to see what happens to armed Americans who try and fight the government.


Your personal stash of firearms may protect you from criminals, its why we have them at my house...but to think you are more than a 15 minute inconvenience for any government agency is ludicrous.

So you think no government and no regulation works better than a government and regulations?

I find it odd that people who fight for their right to have weapons "to protect themselves from criminals and the tyrannical government" have such an issue with making it harder to keep weapons out of the hands of the criminals they are protecting themselves from.

The most idiotic statement that i seen 10 times a day is "yeah because criminals will follow the laws". This common statement is evidence of people who are not capable of understanding cause/effect. Criminals don't get guns from other criminals. They get them from "law abiding citizens" who were careless with storing and securing their firearms or who were just pretending to be law abiding so they could sell the guns to criminals.

Making it more difficult to get firearms (by requiring people to pass a test and complete a training course and register every firearm and notify the government when they are sold) will make it less likely that some lazy moron will own one...and lose it to a thief. It will make it harder for pretend "law abiding citizens" to build a black market business of buying guns to sell to criminals.

Not true.


In Illinois the title of the vehicle must be transferred when it is sold. I can't speak for the rest of the country but if you purchase a car here you must transfer the title to yourself or you are breaking the law. Want to know why that is? It's because Illinois want's to know who owns the car.


But you can't legally own it until the title has been transferred and you can't drive it until its licensed and insured.


It also doesn't mention the use of the internet. This is why its pretty silly to look back at a several hundred year old document every time a new issue presents itself.


It was written before tanks and stealth bombers existed. Not exactly relevant today.


Violence typically exists because of poverty/jealousy etc. Dates back to the beginning of time and obviously Chicago doesn't own the rights to it. The difference between violence with a gun and without a gun is that with a gun it typically ends in death from a gun shot wound. Without a gun its a guy getting stitches from a puncture would caused by a knife or a guy putting a bag of frozen vegetables on his shiner because he lost the fight.

Why worry about whether or not they are telling the truth? Why not log the purchase, track the weapons ownership? If you have buyer X involved in the chain of multiple weapons going from dealers to criminals you know that buyer X is breaking the law and you can arrest him.

The people against registering and keeping track of firearms are basically criminals in wait.

Licensing the guns is not so that you can get a plate number when its flashed at the convenience store. It's so that when a criminal is arrested with a gun that they don't own, you can find out who they got it from and arrest them for supplying the criminal with a firearm.


At least in Illinois...buying and selling a car without transferring the title is illegal. People "doing it all the time" are breaking the law. These are criminals. Just because criminals break the law it doesn't mean that we should do away with the law. The law is why we are able to hold people accountable for their actions.


But if law enforcement does get a hold of it...then can go after the person who "lost" it in the first place. Fine them for a first offense. Take away their ability to buy firearms after a second offense. Jail time on the third offense when its obvious they are selling weapons to criminals illegally.

Just like with other laws that hold "law abiding citizens" accountable...it will reduce the number of guns reaching the criminals.


If we do what we can to stop the flow of weapons to the criminals it will reduce the homicide rate. The same guy shooting from a window wont park his car and get out to fight a group of people...and even if they do it will be a fight not a shoot out.

I agree..... This thread is funny!

not only that but

1) it would mean that people will need to be more responsible (i.e. right now if someone's gun is stolen or lost they don't need to do anything (report it), but if the gun is registered in your name you will want to tell the police just in case it shows up later in a crime.

2) there is also the side benefit, owning an unregistered weapon would be a crime in and of itself. So imagine a scenario where a gang banger gets stopped for something trivial and he has an unregistered gun on him, now there will be legal consequences applied to that as well.


same here. Even if the car is sold to the junk yard for scrap. The funny thing is that it is true even if there is no car to be sold (when my dads car got stolen he had transfer the papers to the insurance company before they gave him the money just in case the cops eventually found the car)

my guess the same must be true everywhere cars are registered, otherwise the registration is meaningless.