I have been busy the last while reading these posts here & doing research on various approaches to setting up a HT.
I think that from the get go one should choose what path they want to go in. As I see it: I see a growing divergence between what I will call the DTS Path, but also a third is emerging within what I will call the Dolby Path which includes THX issues.
The DTS path requires speakers of a “directional” nature & builds the total sound field
By using “zones” much like R&L stereo creates the centre, and the old Quad created the field.
The Dolby path creates the sound field by “dispersing” sound in zones which overlap creating a more “airy” diffuse environment, much like modern Q Stereo does, like the old Dynaco 4 Dimensional process, "surround" headphones.
Even within the Dolby Path, there emerges a different path in that Ultra2 deals with sound differently than Select in the type of speaker to use.
For example: DTS uses “a” type speakers & Dolby Ultra 2 uses “b” & Dolby select uses some “a” & some “b” type speakers.
In my case my 2 former rear “b” speakers were moved to the front & are now used for the Yam’s proprietary front effect speakers, I moved them to the front, & replaced the rear 3 with “a” type speakers in the LRC positions. Thus enhancing my DTS path but diminishing my Dolby path.
The choice of your speakers will effect how the other path will sound.
I guess I just realized how careful we must be with our choices & information.
Dougofthenorth (starting to grasp some of this)
PS: When I understand dipolar, bipolar, tripolar, direct, direct radiating & who knows what else this will probably be written better for those of you that are pro’s or more techincal.


This message was edited by Dougofthenorth on 12/20/01 19:40.56.

Doug, for an explanation of bi- vs di-polar, read this post of mine from a while back.:

[Link: remotecentral.com]

Larry
www.fineelectricco.com

Doug, would you please post a link to where you found the data about DTS needing directional spekers? The only thing I could find on the DTS vs. THX was [Link: dtsonline.com] Although it refers to theater more than home reproduction, it distinctly mentions that DTS works great when played back through a THX system.

Thanks! -Bruce

Bruce;
TRIPOLAR:(& Integrated Three-Way Constant Directivity Speaker Array:)
[Link: home-entertainment.co.uk]
Henley Designs' £800 HCC 205-6 is a new fit-and-forget package comprising identical left, centre and right front speakers, a pair of 'tripolar' surround speakers.
Also some intersting info at: (but I think it is dated (re Ultra2): (there are others as well) [Link: dolby.com]

16. "Should I use bipolar, dipolar, or tripolar surround speakers?
Surround speaker placement, room acoustics, and personal preference are as important as the speakers’ radiating characteristic. These factors vary greatly, so Dolby Laboratories cannot recommend a particular speaker for home theater use." (oh really! check out the Ultra2 THX approved sets!)

TRIPOLAR: (found in general use in many places)
Bipolar, dipolar, and tripolar surround speakers use speaker drivers aimed towards the front and back of the room to achieve a diffuse soundfield like that created by the multiple surround speakers used in movie theaters. Your room’s acoustics will effect these designs more than conventional direct-radiating speakers, which, when placed properly, can also make effective surround speakers.

Re:(within Dolby 2 separate paths)I also found this little interesting ditty on a tech post site " there could be a difference in the DSP algorithm between the Dolby Digital™ version and the THX® version. I could always re-install the old software and remove the expansion board for a definitive answer."
Bruce: If you read the following articles & can understand them enough to apply the tech to your situation I think you get a certificate or something. (but the articles do make a lot of sense): [Link: sound-technology.com]
I think the paper at the follwing more leads to what Ultra2 is heading for first with the speakers then I think the processed signal has to be dealt with in a different way - is this then not DPL2?!! or at least where it is heading?: [Link: sound-technology.com]
I will get back to you when I get the DTS info.
RE: DTS vs. THX
I read on Dolby's site (got to find it again)Dolby's response paper to DTS- boy do they rip it apart!! "Sound Wars" - It was more focuses on the way DTS "tweeked" the sound in its format as compared to Dolby. The main arguments put foward by Dolby were supported by graphs & test results & they slighted DTS for not providing any. I will try again to find it 7 also if DTS ever responded to its claims & supported it with scientific data, graphs etc.
Dougofthenorth

This message was edited by Dougofthenorth on 12/21/01 09:44.18.

Hey Doug

Happy Holidays! One thing to remember in all this mess is that you should use speakers that you prefer. Just becasue DTS says use direct radiators for DTS and DD says use Bi-poles or di-poles for DD doesn't mean that you have to use those particular speakers to achieve great results.

Personally I don't care for Di-Poles or Bi-poles and I use Direct radiators for my rears and I like it better than a setup with Bi/Di/Tri-poles. But that is my own preference. I would listen and if you like the Bi/Di/Tri-poles go with them regardless of what DTS or DD says. That's just my thoughts on the subject....Tony

I absolutly like Direct radiation speakers for ALL my surround speakers, I like the pinpoint imaging rather than the more diffuse sound field that the Di-pole speakers produce. Although, the Di-polar sound is trying to replicate the sound from a movie theater that has numerous speakers placed on all the side and back walls thus they are THX standard.

I can agree with both of you & did some testing, in that my Kenwood THX "3-way 5-speaker designed to Home THX® specifications Speaker units mounted with acoustic centre aligned to achieve frontal image localization" (direct radiating? Monopolar?)are mounted on swivel brackets on the rear wall I pointed them inwards for DTS & tilted them a little outwards & it seemed to do the trick!! Preference - I like the DTS pointed inward. But the speakers are not made for THX rear rather fronts, so that may be why they don't sound as good?
Now we have to get into the speaker differences thing already!!
Dougofthenorth (gimme a break!)
You know (yes I'm going to say it) many years ago the greatest philosophers spent years contemplating & postulating as to how many angels could fit on the head of a pin! - well my dear friends this DTS/THX/ULTRA/DPL2 thing is retro.

Doug,

I haven't read the links you provided (thanks!) yet. But it's fun to understand what "they" are all trying to do with setting standards.

BTW, don't forget to read DTS' replies to Dolby's allegations (one reply each for Dolby's part one and part two.) They don't like each other much, wonder why?... LOL

Personally, I've blown so much money in the last few weeks on upgrading my receiver, amps and my new 400 DVD megachanger, that it'll be a while before I buy new speakers... So this is the perfect time for my research efforts. By the time I have the money, hopefully I'll have figured out which speakers to buy!

Happy holidays,

-Bruce

SOUND WARS
DTS: (in response to Dolby's criticism below)
[Link: dtsonline.com]
[Link: dtsonline.com]
DTS History:[Link: dtsonline.com]

DOLBY:
[Link: dolby.com]
Dolby History:(past present & future)
[Link: dolby.com]
Dougofthenorth

BTW, I currently am using matched direct radiating speakers for all four surronds, toed inward. Matt gave me that advice some time ago, and it sounds great!