Here's a novel idea guy's. Buy the Denon or whatever you like ant a local retailer that you enjoy doing business with. Yes, That's right. Get out of the house if you must. You are NOT getting ripped off by any company that is selling you a 3802 for $1099. Keep your tax dollars within your community whenever possible. Don't make me open up this can of worms again. By the way.. Before anybody says anything. YES I sell Denon. NO I am NOT a walk in retailer. And NO the Denon won't break... The chances of this are VERY low... Keep in mind that On line retailers will wait for a minimum number of orders to arrive before shipping even ordering it's own stock.. They have to when the are working with virtually no markup on an expensive item. However YES! They will tell you it's in stock... or that it will be shortly... Don't waste your money on some guy out of state who will hope to pocket 25 bucks from so many people a day. You can guess what happens when you send your item back for a so called repair. It's hard enough getting factory repairs on anything, much less from a guy who is going to loose money to help you. But don't worry. Maybe you can someday buy so much on line that your schools get overcrowded, all the small stores give ways to malls, all the small store become liquor stores and currency exchanges, and the middle class will fall back farther making on line shopping more "necessary". Wait... Hasn't that happened already? nope... hasn't even begun..

Jay: [insert Doh sound Homer Simpson makes here] ... Mike

You know, there's a lot more to this issue than price. A guy on some board recently bought a receiver. Now this wasn't a brand new model, but it was a Yamaha, I think. They have a similar attitude to Denon's regarding unauthorized dealers.

Anyway, the guy gets his internet purchase, turns out to be a Chinese version of the receiver, missing a couple small things from the US version. Now, it works, but it is not the same box he would have gotten at his local store. Luckily its power supply is capable of US voltage.

Others have gotten obviously repackaged machines, probably returns. There are also other B-market machines being sold through net dealers such as refurbished or damaged box machines that get rejected by authorized dealers.

The current situation of the Denon 3802 is probably somewhat different since the European and Asian models aren't even available yet, and I doubt there's much B-stock yet. So this may be a good time to buy discount, but in 6 months that may be a very different prospect.

For my Klipsch speakers, yet another company on the warpath over unauthorized dealers, I chose to buy authorized, I just didn't trust mail order. I'm still considering for a receiver, the 4802 comes out late this month. Hmmm........

Another option is to use the american express blue card. They will price match up to $350, including web site prices. They will also let you return the product up to 90 days if for some reason it doesn't work out.

Go to www.americanexpress.com and check it out.

Excellent observation, Spiky. One very serious reason that manufacturers have a tight rein on Internet sales, which involves "sight-unseen" faith, is to prevent rip-offs. Who gets to pay for warranty work and device replacements when this happens? Should it be the manufacturer? If I were in the business, I'd say "Definitely not".

And who has to face the customer wrath when the buyer tries to get the component repaired at an authorized service center? The service center guy, of course. It's up to him to prove to the manufacturer that the work qualifies for warranty service, both in terms of type of repair and actual "in warranty" product.

The repercussions of a manufacturer ignoring good business rules become quickly apparent. There was a time, not too many years ago, when you couldn't find a single reputable (or disrep, for that matter) service center who wanted to be an authorized RCA shop, because Thompson's policies in this area were so poor (I know that probably sounds like a subjective and sweeping generalization, but I can tell you that I was involved in the middle of the debacle).

Hey, most of us have been burned often enough when buying locally (anything, not simply home theater equipment). I can't imagine buying from a non-warranty source, no matter the cost. I support my local home theater shops, and while others often brag that they paid less than I did, I have yet to have a problem returning something or getting service. And the more I shop there, the more loyal they become... to me. (Of course, I would buy from Jay in a New York minute...) ... Mike

Good points Spiky & Mike. A few months ago I saw a couple stacks Of Denon's Top of the line 5 disc changer at a discount store that NEVER sells anything Denon for about 100 bills less than Dealer cost. No.. I didn't buy any and pass the savings on to the customer. I'm sure these could have been bought up and re sold on the net.. But why were they at that price and in that store to begin with? By the way... The boxes seemed fine, but the situation was not cool with me. Perhaps they fell off the back of a truck.

Costco sell electronics at discount prices. Usually it's either a close out item, excess inventory, or the item is popular so they can get a good volume discount.

They clearly tell you that they are not an authorized dealer, but they give you their own warranty at no extra cost.

I'm kinda on the fence about this one. Like Mike above me I try to support the local merchants. BTW they priced the 3802 @ $1020 & makes the above math a little closer. I however think Dennon's own policys create this whole problem. They are the only ones with total control as to who they sell their product & @ what price. I don't think it would take much effort on Dennon's part to look into where these unauthorized dealers get there own products. Its like they expect them to suddenly vanish since they sold them for so cheep in the bulk qty. Most of us spend alot of time researching these purchases so we don't end up with something obsolete before we get it. Too bad we have to toil over this kind of stuff from the manufactures who cause the whole problem. They might even help out there own authorized distributers in the process.

BTW. The best time to upgrade is always about 30 days after I do. So if you are thinking about upgrading your HT just wait a couple of weeks. I'm certain that there is a pending press release about some new format or DSP about to be released the will make my system behind the times once again. ---Dave.

I am in agreement with Slocko, Costco offers discount prices and a no-hassle warranty. Of course, sometimes the selection is not excellent, however, if you see something that you have been looking for, and you just know it is more expensive elswhere, it is a safe purchase buying at Costco. I have done this for DVD's, my Sub-Woofer, CD-Player and lots of computer software and hardware. In cases where the manufacturer is not providing a warranty, Costco clearly states that it is a Costco warranty. Equipment such as Sony and Panasonic TV's fall into this category. You can't beat Costco for their return policy, it is always no-hassle and no-risk.

Sorry for the Costco rave. It is just a relief to have a store that does not engage in questioning worthy of an FBI investigation when you try to bring something back. The norm in the Toronto area is to hassle you to death so that you don't want to ever bring it back or shop there again.