I have always had cable TV, but this past summer I cancelled it due to the fact I don't watch much TV and what I did watch was local stations.

Shortly after xmas I purchased a plasma HDTV (with built in tuner) and surround sound stereo, mainly for movies. However, I would like to get as much HDTV as I can for free if possible.

I am in Ridgeway, Ontario (just east of Fort Erie):

[Link: remotecentral.com]

I currently get all the Grand Island stations in the above map through a cheap table top antenna. I would like to invest in upgrading to an outdoor antenna, and would appreciate some suggestions and realistic opinions on how far I will be able to reach. What would be recommended and what exactly do I need in order to set up a decent quality OTA antenna?

Thanks!

At your distance you shouldn't need anything big, though I'd still start off with something like a Channel Master 4248 or 4228. You would still want to put it as high as possible, but you probably wouldn't need a preamp. You may, however, need a rotor since you're trying to get stuff in totally different directions (might want to try the 4228 now that I think of it).

Thanks for the reply Daniel,

After some searching, I see that some of these antennas are fairly large - similar to older Antennas. Am I correct in assuming that there is no differnce between a new "HDTV" Antenna and an older UHF Antenna? Reason I ask is my father is planning on removing his old antenna and I could simply erect it at my house and use it for HDTV (if possible).

I would prefer a smaller "not so ugly" antenna though, if it would suit my range. I found a "GE MAX" antenna online that would be nice, but I am kind of skeptical of its effectiveness. How good do the Winegard PR4400 antennas work?

Also, I think I might prefer to get two antennas rather than a rotor, that way I won't have to play with the rotor when switching channels - would I require a switch though to go between antennas, or could I just hook both lines up into a splitter of sorts?

The antenna that Daniel suggests is UHF only. UHF consists of much higher frequencies than VHF, so UHF antennas are much smaller than UHF/VHF antennas.

You could get a pretty clear line on what you will need and where you will need to point it if you go to www.antennaweb.org and go through the steps of searching for an antenna.

You will get a printout of the stations you can expect to get in your area with an idea of what kind of antenna will be needed to get them. Note that the HD stations, such as 2-1 or 7-1 (just making this up here) are going to be shown as actually on frequencies such as 36 or 45, that is, UHF frequencies. You just have to review the list of HD stations you want to get and verify that none of them are really on VHF frequencies to know if you need a UHF/VHF or if UHF only will suffice.

I think Daniel lives close enough to you, or researches his answers well enough, to pretty well guarantee that if he advises a UHF antenna, that is what you will need.

At antennaweb.or, you can even get a street level map that shows where to point the antenna in relationship to your house and street. When I am putting up antennas, I take these printouts up on the roof, sight along the street lines, and just copy what I see.

thanks for the reply.

Sorry, what I meant by two antennas is both being UHF with one facing Toronto and one facing Buffalo. Would I need to switch between the two or can I just run them both to my antenna input on my TV and get all channels. (ie would the signals from TO screw up the NY signals?).

Also, are these larger antennas collapsable? If they are I could mount one in my attic to hide it - I do realize this cuts the reception in half for the most part, but if I get one with enough range I may be able to overcome the loss with a preamp?

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That site doesn't work for Canada, but I have inputed Buffalo ZIP codes and it suggest a mostly a medium directional. All the channels I would be interested in in digital format are on UHF. Any analog on VHF is carried in digital on UHF so I don't need to worry about the VHF channels.

Unfortuneately the street level maps don't do me much good since they aren't accurate to my actual location.

A couple points:

1) Antenna design has not really changed in 50 years. Yes there are all sorts of "new" compact miracle dish-style designs but they DO NOT WORK for anything except extremely close range reception, much in the way that a coat hanger will work. It's all marketing.

2) Yes, an antenna purchased decades ago would be just as effective as a comparible antenna purchased today. There's a local manufacturer of antennas that sells the EXACT same designs they were selling 30 years ago, but of course they're now "great for HDTV".


3) Old antennas, especially if they've been installed all this time, would not be a good idea. Acid rain corrodes the elements, wind weakens the connections between metal pieces, possibly bends some elements, so that the antenna would not have nearly as much sensitivity as it did when it was new.

4) Yes, most antennas come in pieces. Some UHF antennas are almost fully assembled, but they're not that big to start with compared to VHF antenna (although most VHF antennas have elements that fold in).

5) Since the channels you need to receive are all over the dial, if you install two antennas you WILL NEED TO SWITCH BETWEEN THEM. You cannot simply combine those two feeds into one line. Well, physically you could, but you would completely wreck your reception, since although the antennas would be aiming in different directions, each would still be receiving versions of all signals on the air, and the "bad" versions would merge with the "good" version into a horrible ghosting/multi-path mess.

This is even something you have to watch out for when 'stacking' antennas facing the same direction to boost reception (something I do) - you have to make sure they're aimed exactly right and that the signals merge at the right point, or your reception would actually get worse than a single antenna.

When you see multiple antennas aimed in different directions on a mast, usually one antenna has been designed to receive a SINGLE channel or concurrant groups of channels, and then that is merged into the main line with a series of filters that clear out the frequencies and then merge in only those. When you need to receive random channel numbers from different directions, your best bet is either a switch or a rotor.

6) Remember that a preamp can only boost what's there to start with. Garbage in, garbage out.

Thanks again Daniel - alot of info there!

I'm not too fond of having to use a rotor or switch, so I may look at other options and just have OTA as a backup.

Remote controlled rotors really aren't much of a problem.

Can they be programmed with preset stops by chance? Since I would only need two basic directions (hopefully), that would be much more convienient. Wouldn't be a big deal if they didn't though - and I could just mount the controller on the end table...

Yeah, the Channel Master model I have is fully remote controllable. And I mean infrared remote controllable, not big controller box with a rotating dial remote controllable.

You can either just punch in the exact degrees you want on the remote (015, 175, 260), or you can program in specific locations for channel numbers, ie. punch in "5" and it goes to "250", "9" and it goes to "175", "57" and it goes to "305". There's also a syncronization routine that recalibrates the antenna if the wind blows it off.

You won't need an end table for the controller, it's just a little box an inch and a half high and four inches wide with a numerical display that needs to be able to see your remote. And hook up to the rotor's control wires, obviously.

I love to visit this forum, and love it when new questions come up, so I was hoping to help you ou there. But Daniel has covered it all, and every answer is totally correct, so all I can do is cheer!

I agree with Daniel go with the Channel Master 4228, it has a good arc which minimizes rototation.
I'm in Toronto and have the 4228 running through a Samsung receiver, I am totally thrilled with the results. i pick up every channel available with strong signal and no drop offs. The 4228 is roof mounted about 30 feet up and just pointed off centre to the CN tower.
All stations are crystal clear.

Thanks again guys - sounds like a pretty good option, especially with it being able to be controlled by infared remote!

Just an update. I went to a local shop recommended by a board member and purchased a Wade 4bay 1483 Antenna. It is mounted on a 20' mast off my deck (didn't want to poke holes in the roof if I didn't have to).

I am getting reception of the following channels with an east (slightly south) direction):

2.1
2.2
7.1
11
17
23.1
23.3
29.1
29.2
34.3
34.4
39.4
39.5
43.1
43.2
43.3
49
51


I have the antenna pointed towards Buffalo (west), slightly angled south to grab WKBW. The only CDN station I seem to get is CHCH 11 analog. I get get a not so clear global 55 analog out of stevensville if I angle that way, but I lose to much of Buffalo.

Anything else I should be getting for my location - I seem to be getting everything on eastern half of NY on this map:

[Link: remotecentral.com]

No 4.x?