For those of you who went to Cedia, you saw the new Philips TSU3500/7500 and the new RFX6500 IR/RF extender. We got to see a few hardware modifications (awesome new backlight on the TSU3500), some new editing software and a pretty cool (hopefully reliable) RF solution.

But that's not the good news! I found out Friday from a finance friend of mine at Philips that they are going institute an "INTERNET BAN" on the new TSU3500 / TSU7500 and RFX6500.

Finally, they (Philips) listened and we can make some money.

This person confirmed that the new models (TSU7500/RFX6500) are supposed to ship 1st week of October & the TSU3500 (TSU3000 replacement) won't ship until mid November.

Just passing the news along.

Later...

Should this "really" be public knowledge?

This message was edited by Lyndel McGee on 09/18/05 20:08 ET.

I don't agree this is good news. I understand some pro's want to "control" the availability of Pronto's to fatten the margin. From my perspective, most people buying a Pronto do it because they have enough knowledge to program it, so they won't call a Pro anyway. Those who buy a Pronto and don't have a clue will eventualy call a Pro to get them out of this mess. The others will directly call a Pro.

So, what business have you lost?

I usually don't get emotional, but I have to say this is imo narrow minded. Let the market be free, clearly identify your added value, or get out of the business.

Sorry, I won't do it again ;~)

CV27,

That's why I have an edit above. As an end user only, this post really pissed me off as well. However, I decided to see what public opinion was prior to speaking.

I've been thinking about upgrading my 3000 to a 7500. I don't think I'll be doing so now. I'll probably keep the 3000 until it dies and then switch to a non-philips brand.

What great news! This restriction by Philips will no doubt open the door for a Chinese clone which will be sold by anybody and everybody over the Internet at even lower prices. : -)

Either that, or the MX-3000, which is starting to appear at heavily discounted prices on the Internet, will take over from Pronto as the hobbyist's choice.

Earth to installer -- hardware is a COMMODITY ITEM. You add no value by handling the hardware on route from point A to point B. Quite the contrary; that added transportation is pure waste. You add value by listening, recommending, guiding, programming, and supporting. Sorry, but handing me a box does not earn you your margin.

Is anyone really surprised, though? Philips has already shown its lack of regard for the end user by leaving us with the current PENG since April and dithering over the touchscreen problem. Bad form, Philips, bad form.

I plan to keep the jury out on this one till we see what actually happens in this regard. If the original post here ends up being on the money, I will most certainly chime in with a fiesty reply.

Of course there are other, more established methods within distribution methodology, which other remote companies are currently using. One of the more acceptable methods is to use "MAP", or minimum-advertised-price. The dealer agrees they will not advertise the product below list price. What they sell it for is a different story. This process is also acceptable within the Robinson-Patman act, also known as the "price-fixing act." The result is the consumer has to shop a little harder. The good news for those trying to make a few $ in hardware margins, is the price is not quickly eroded by those who are happy to make $10 profit.

However, if the manufacturer does not follow-up on the dealers who break the rules, then the strategy is down the tubes. This also means Philips themselves cannot dump 1000's of refurbs on the market and have them show up on eBay, which has occurred all this past year.

From a sheer business perspective, Philips does need to do something drastic. Many, many of their loyal dealers have switched away from them due to the horrid price wars. There are other remote companies who attempt to bring some order to the business.

For example, URC has two distinct product sets. One for the retailers and one for the custom installers. This is a reasonable solution. It has been done for years in other industries. They also employ a MAP strategy. And they limit those who are authorized to sell on the internet.

Marantz is tightly controlled by distribution and is rarely ever seen in any consumer advertising. That is why custom installers lean toward this line.

Same with RTI. Great products and heavy support for the custom installer.

So, that being said, it is difficult to craft a perfect distribution strategy. Will be interesting to see what happens.


Dave

I've always found it strange that, in the U.S., it seems that manufacturers can dictate to their distributors how goods are sold. Over here, and in most of the developed world, it is illegal for a manufacturer to tell a distributor/dealer to not sell on the Internet. It is also highly illegal to tell a dealer that they cannot advertise below list price.

I'd hate to be the person @ Philips who leaked this or that person's supervisor.

Once again, I must question the intentions of the original poster as to whether this was supposed to be public information.

If I, myself, in a casual conversation with a "friend" discovered such information, I don't think I'd leak it as it was told to me in confidence.

In my mind, this "leak" is kind of like corporate espionage or insider trading and the perps should end up in shackles with Martha S.

It is illegal in the US to fix prices. That said, there are several "devices" that distributors and manufacturers can employ to effectively control prices, restrict sales territories and/or protect dealers who sell at full price. They can refuse to sell to a customer they do not want to deal with. They can offer warranties only on products bought from "authorized dealers" and they can define what constitutes an authorized dealer.

So if you are a dealer selling product at a discount from list, and the manufacturer or distributor that you buy from wants to ensure that its products are sold at list price, the distibutor can simply decide not to sell to you any longer.

I don't think the situation is different in most of Europe and some Asian countries such as Japan. I think it is worse in those countries, since the discounts that are available in the US are generally significantly more than in Europe or Japan for the same products.

The manufacturers are in a bind. On the one hand, they want to sell as much product as they can, but if they believe that they will lose their most important distribution channels by allowing price-cutting or unrestricted competition at the retail level, they feel obliged to take action to protect those channels.

The protection schemes don't hold up when competitive products are available at significantly lower prices. IBM learned this the hard way and wound up selling off its printer, PC and other product divisions because they couldn't maintain the high margins they needed to offset their overhead costs. IBM is still in the mainframe business because it has no effective competition and can charge whatever it wants.

Printers and PCs are ubiquitous today. Programmable remote controls are not there yet. One of these days they will be (in my opinion). We all know that the inherent cost of the hardware when mass-produced isn't very much. The real cost is in the software, and no company has made the kind of investment needed to create a software/Internet solution that would be ubiquitous. I believe that it will take an Apple or a Microsoft to do it, and that it will happen.

It would be hard to hide the fact these devices
wasn't on sale on the net ...

I don't know why this thread is getting so much attention

1) for those that have been for ever here, Philips tried the same thing with the original Pronto, but never put too much effort into it

2) I am split on this. I think it is a manufacturers duty to protect its dealers, and I can understand stuff like this, on the other hand I know I have needed to buy (could not find locally because Philips decided to not deal with Canada and Canadian distributors) from over the internet.

It is getting attention because it is a gut issue. Dealers are most interested in maximizing margins and hobbyists/users are most interested in paying the least they can. These two objectives are in direct opposition to one another. Manufacturers would like to serve the needs of both audiences, and, when they try to do that, usually wind up offending both parties.