Def Tech has the Pro 60 package that retails for $600. Thats four sats, a center and an 8" powered sub.

If it sounds like you're blowing your nose, its gotta be Bose!

Jim, that snot funny!

I almost fell into the "if you can't beat em' join em" mentality and nearly signed up to rep the "Built Invisible" line. One look at the way they've set this up with what looks like a bunch of car amps and no reasonable way to wire it up without looking like a nest of shite and I said no way. There is that thing about sleeping at night also.

I was around when Fred was and I do remember the spiff programs. I worked at Pacific Stereo... land of the proprietary gear that sometimes sat at 70 POINTS!!! It was easy to get caught up in the money aspect. In 1986 I moved to a small, higher end shop and realized that I could still make money but could now set up much better sounding systems. I had happier clients that sent more biz my way.

To Sam... I can't agree with Emdawgz more... go listen to really nice speakers... make a friend with a good salesperson or integrator. Right now, buy the best system you can afford; much like a house... you don't usually start with a dream mansion... you start with a condo or a 2BR and you work your way up. I can't count the number of times that someone I spent some time with got a better job and came in two years later to buy some cool gear.

Thanks to those of you who suggested going into a custom installers' shop. One reason I don't go in... the wife won't like what I come out with. :) That's in cost, not sound.

I didn't realize custom installers wouldn't mind my coming in and chatting. I would feel guilty thinking I was wasting their time since it would be years before I bought anything. I don't mind doing that at Best Buy, Circuit City because I'm not talking to salespeople there (I figure I know as much as if not more than they do).

Any installers on this board in the Lexington, Ky area that I can come out and chat & look around? :)

SamG

Bottom Line .. Don't be scared to visit a custom installer ... We are here to help ... We're not retailers ... Our knowledge has value ... Circuit City, Best Buy etc. are about sales and marketing ... not sales and service ... Retailers don't care about whether or not the system they sell fits your home, we do ... Will you pay a little more for our systems? ... YES ... Will they out perform the retailer's? ... ABSOLUTELY ... SamG ... I would love it if 1 person a day came into my place "just to chat and look around"

If you have the money for Bose you have the money for something better. The problem is that bose has convinced everyone that those tiny cubes are all you need. Just like in the automotive world "there is no substitue for cubic inches" Jamo also makes a nice Bose killer setup. The fact is that everyone has had to make a nice Bose killer setup because bose has done such an obnoxiously effective job at marketing. I shuddered when I found out that AVAD was picking up bose.

The problem is that bose

OK. Maybe I do know something. Let me clarify. The bose speakers I like are the 301 (bookshelf) speakers, not the cubes.

SamG

The 301's arent any better. Nor the 501, 901 etc.
For the same price your can get a nice pair of bookshelves from RBH, Energy, Def Tech, Atlantic Tech, Paradigm, etc. They would all deliver a flatter responce curve and go lower then the "Blowes" :-)

Not only that, they even tell people (like my sister, my very own blood. YARGH!) that "This system sells for $3100, but I'll sell it to you for $1700."

I tried to explain that they build a room around the speakers, that they (and all speakers) will sound very different in her (and everybody else's) room.

I begged her to let me take her shopping, but she had to have these (the little swiveling double cubes) because they're "so cute!" I wept!

So, I reluctantly installed them for her, wires in walls and everything, popped in a DVD and heard:"Why doesn't it sound like yours?"

*Heavy sigh!*

Larry

Dear Larry,
please tell your sister that those are little snivelling cubes, not swiveling. She missed the facts for the hype.

Actually, I have had a revelation about Bose sound and how it may have helped destroy an aspect of high fidelity. See the thread I am about to open on Bose and bass.

Ernie

Samg, bose speakers are CHEAP. Paper cone drivers, cheap magnets, cheap enclosures. The only thing bose spends money on is MARKETING, and Promotions for the sales guys!(Spiff's for you insiders). They are the Mcdonalds of home audio. The product doesnt matter just promote it the customer wont know the difference!

Now that I see everybody is a Bose fan anybody have the DVD regional codes?

Once again, I point out that Bose is not the worst thing out there. I am not a Bose dealer, rep, sales person, or whatever. My point is, when I compare speakers at Best Buy and Circuit City, Bose sounds better than the other speakers in place in those stores.

These are not specially built rooms for Bose, but three different rooms with about 12-14 pairs of speakers in each room. You select which pair you listen to.

My opinion, based on that unscientific testing (listening to the same sound coming from different speakers), is that Bose sounds better than the other speakers sold by Best Buy & Circuit City.

I don't thing it has anything to do with Bose marketing, but with Best Buy & Circuit City marketing. The stores are driving the customers. I go to those stores for speakers, and Bose sounds the same in those stores.

Emdawgz, I challenged everyone to name comparable (at least price-wise) with better sound so I can go look (listen) to them. Some have done that, and I thank those of you that have. The challenge still stands if you want to put your two cents in.

SamG

SamG,
One of "marketing" issues related to Bose that everyone is commenting on has to do with your comments above "when I compare speakers at Best Buy and Circuit City, Bose sounds better than the other speakers in place in those stores." Bose spends a lot of money to determine what influences customers in a store. They have found that a certain "type" of sound, while not sonically accurate, will influence people more than other types of sound. Bose understands that most mid to high-end speakers strive to be as accurate as possible. This results in a lot of the speakers in a showroom having similar sonic characteristics. Bose tries very hard to sound "different" than the other speakers in the room. They do this by "coloring" the sound in the speaker/enclosure design process. The end result is sort of like turning the "LOUDNESS" filter on your stereo on. It may sound better, but it doesn't produce better sound. When Bose does this, it limits the performance of their speakers to a certain type of sound. Other speakers may sound "flat" or less "warm", but that reflects a different design approach based on allowing you, the consumer, to decide how you want them to sound. Other speakers will give you more tuning ability and more control to tune the speakers to the room.
Another factor relating to marketing is that the showrooms are set up to sell you equipment. The equipment that a store wants to sell the most of is going to be in the best position. Basic marketing: move your high-profit items into the best sounding positions. The stores drive the customers, but the manufacturers drive the stores. Be VERY careful when you listen to a room. Take your own music/movies, listen to everything, look at placement, look at where the speakers are aimed, look at how the speakes are matched up, be objective, ask questions.
In the end, you are the one who gets to listen to these speakers, not us. If you like the Bose, you like the Bose. We may think it is like you wearing hip waders to a swimming pool, but whatever floats your boat.
For the second part of this, take a look at the Fosgate Audionics FA51.0. You can find them priced in the same ball park as the Bose, better sound, phenomenal engineering. You may have to look a bit for a dealer, but it will be worth it. [Link: fosgateaudionics.com]

Just my two cents.
Jason

This message was edited by PHSJason on 06/30/03 20:36.