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Topic:
Multiple RFX Extenders = More interference?
This thread has 20 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Tuesday October 31, 2006 at 20:36
SOUND.SD
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I just started using multiple RFX extenders wired in parallel over CAT5 scatter troughout homes to extend RF range in houses when using volume controls for WHA. Obviously using the remote for control functions.

At first this seemed like a great idea. Allowing control to far off patios, bar rooms, game rooms, ect. However, the more I think about it the more I realize I am opening myself up to more RF interference by increasing my RF recievers. Especially if left in an attic near light cans or whatever else is going on around the house.

Are my worries justified? Will all recievers pick up interference and send it the to the MRF or will the closest reciever just be blocked if it has interference?
Bulldog AV - San Diego, CA
www.bulldog-av.com
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Post 2 made on Tuesday October 31, 2006 at 22:28
GregoriusM
RC Consultant
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Is it working? If it is, then why are you worried?
When ignorance is bliss, ‘tis folly to be wise.
OP | Post 3 made on Tuesday October 31, 2006 at 23:06
SOUND.SD
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On October 31, 2006 at 22:28, GregoriusM said...
Is it working? If it is, then why are you worried?

I am a custom installer and would like to continue to use this approach. However, I dont want to bid it if it could be a problem.

The one job I have completed with this is having some odd issues.
Bulldog AV - San Diego, CA
www.bulldog-av.com
[Link: facebook.com]
Post 4 made on Wednesday November 1, 2006 at 02:27
tweeterguy
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I've done a few installs with 2 rfx antennas, one in a commercial application in a mall. No problems on any of them worth mentioning. Of course I treat the install the same as if using only one antenna....remove antenna from the rfx, range set to about 1/3, doubling up pairs, ensure placement is rf interference free on ID 0, etc.
Post 5 made on Wednesday November 1, 2006 at 08:13
AZ Installer/ Designer
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Just added a second RFX-150 to a system yesterday that was working flawlessly for 2 weeks - I needed another 6 feet of range. Controlling 2 each DCT6412 Cable boxes in the same Rack. When I hooked up the second antenna I LOST all of the IR routing. Wired one in the mini jack port and the other into the phoenix connector. Then wired them both into the phoenix connector - same problem. The second RFX-150 is wired with CAT5 wire approx. 75'. If I unplug the second antenna the IR routing comes back. Four phone calls to Universal Remote Tech support later I pull the RFX-150 and install a RFX-250 - golden. It just took 6 hours and 3 different techs telling me you either can't run the antenna on CAT5 or we have issues when using CAT5. This was after being told that you should use CAT5 for the antenna - 7 classes at CEDIA, the Universal booth and Eric Johnson saying you can wire one antenna into the phoenix connector and one into the mini jack.

Hello RTI - Here I come
Robert G. Green
Better to have and not need, then to need and not have.
OP | Post 6 made on Wednesday November 1, 2006 at 12:17
SOUND.SD
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Wait.... Are you saying that I can not wire 2 RFX150's (one from the box and one extra) to the same Phoenix connector?

The specific job I am refferring to one antenna is local and one is in the master bedroom attic.

Also, I am using an 850 so I can not use an RFX250.
Bulldog AV - San Diego, CA
www.bulldog-av.com
[Link: facebook.com]
Post 7 made on Wednesday November 1, 2006 at 12:35
tweeterguy
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On November 1, 2006 at 12:17, SOUND.SD said...
Wait.... Are you saying that I can not wire 2 RFX150's
(one from the box and one extra) to the same Phoenix connector?

I don't know why he had so many problems but in all of the double RFX150 installs they are both on cat5 with both connected to the phoenix connector on the base station....no problems whatsoever. Mad skills or luck? I'll take it either way!
Post 8 made on Thursday November 2, 2006 at 08:26
AZ Installer/ Designer
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tweeterguy - was there a special wiring configuration you used with the CAT5?

I wired the Blue/BlueWhite to the RED(5V) - Green/GreenWhite to the Black (Ground)
and Orange/OrangeWhite to the White (Data). The range was awesome but I lost all IR routing. Was pretty frustrated the other day, but now I have that deep feeling of wanting to understand what happened.
Robert G. Green
Better to have and not need, then to need and not have.
Post 9 made on Thursday November 2, 2006 at 12:37
JonW747
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The color pairs are twisted inside the cable. This is done to reduce noise and interference, but the only way to take advantage of it is to run the signal on one of the pairs, and it's "return" (typically ground) on the other.

Doesn't URC have a wiring recommendation in their manual?
Post 10 made on Thursday November 2, 2006 at 16:45
Eric Johnson
Universal Remote Control Inc.
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We recommend using all 8 conductors in a CAT 5 wire as follows:

For Ground = Use 4 conductors - One from each twisted pair! - Use all the stripes.
For Data = Use 2 conductors
For 5V = Use 2 conductors
Best Regards,
Eric
Post 11 made on Thursday November 2, 2006 at 21:10
briremo
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How come we didn't cover that in class today? Or was that after we left early?

Brian @ Connect Source
feed a dog and he will not bite you. this is the principal difference between a man and a dog. Mark Twain
Post 12 made on Thursday November 2, 2006 at 23:58
tweeterguy
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I've yet to follow this new wiring scheme as my system hasn't broken yet.

Since day one this is how all mine are wired up:

Data = W.Blu/Blu
5v = W.Or/Or
Gnd = W.Gr/Gr
Post 13 made on Friday November 3, 2006 at 19:05
Ericjb
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There are many ways the rfx antennas can be wired and work great but this is why URC recommends doing it the way Eric Johnson said:

By using all striped wires as ground and 2 solid color conductors for data you are using 1 as data and 1 as ground on each of two pairs which means the twisting of the pairs will help reject interference. This is the way cat5 was designed to work.

Twisting a voltage and ground probably doesn't benefit you in and of itself but another great benefit in this wiring scheme is that ALL UNUSED WIRES ARE GROUNDED. This will eliminate the possibility that the unused wires can act as an antenna and receive unwanted signals and proliferate crosstalk between emitter ports.

I would recommend using their method because there is a lot of great theory behind it, and it can't hurt. You really close a lot of doors when you do this and are much less likely to have problems.
There are 10 types of people in this world,
There are those who understand binary,
and those who don't!
OP | Post 14 made on Sunday November 5, 2006 at 18:41
SOUND.SD
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Thanks Eric!

Great post..... Now thats what this forum is all about.
Bulldog AV - San Diego, CA
www.bulldog-av.com
[Link: facebook.com]
Post 15 made on Sunday November 5, 2006 at 19:06
JonW747
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Noise is only a problem if you have noise...

What Eric suggests make sense, but if you still have trouble nothing says you have to use UTP. You could use Shielded twisted pair, or better yet use RG6 Coax and run +5 on a seperate wire.
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