Hey all,

Several questions as nearly a newbie with universal remotes. I'm a techno-geek in other ways so its just a learning curve for me to get educated about universal remote controls. Of course I want it and I want it all 'in one remote.' *lol* I'll figure out the programming if a specific model/brand of remote can actually 'do ALL I'd expect of it.' Which is asking alot!

I've been 'considering' a newer universal remote for some time now. But I've only been half heartedly doing all the research necessary, to date anyway. I've had a old RS Kameleon that's served my purposes 'mostly' but even that has become too inadequate for my more current setup. Here's my list of current equipment I'm trying to control 'more fully.' The newer components I'm expecting to be fairly easy to find a remote to work with them. Its my 'old' stuff that I'm mostly concerned about since they still serve my purposes and still do it very well. I'm especially interested in getting 'as many' of the 'original' remote functions as possible. When you have the birds nest of cables I do connecting all of what I have listed below and 'need nothing else' but a good remote to fully control it all without using nearly a dozen remotes? I'm an old geek (50's +) who's not entirely clueless. Knowing I need to know more than I already do? Is a big plus. So I came here to learn from those who know more than I do when it comes to universal remote controls. Have pity on an old goat like me? *lol* Links to other places for me to learn more? Is what I'm really asking for! Any recommendations for specific models/brands would be a bonus!

(Newer)
Panasonic TH42PZ85U - HDTV
Panasonic DMP-BD35 - BlueRay DVD Player
Samsung DTB-H260F - OTA HDTV Tuner (for secondary Over The Air HDTV recordings)
Motorola DCH 3200 - HDTV Cable Box (Comcra_, YUCK!)
Whatever AT&T U-Verse will use since I'll be switching to it asap (anxious to fire Comcast)

(Older)
Harman Kardon PT 2300 - PreAmp/Tuner
Harman Kardon FL 8450 - CD Changer
Harman Kardon HD7450 - CD Player
JVC HR-J610U - VHS Recorder
RCA VR 620 HF - VHS Recorder
Sony SL-HF400 - BETA Recorder (I know, its a dinosaur, but it still works!)

Being that I have so many 'older' pieces finding current remotes that would still be compatible isn't so easy from what I've seen so far. I've been looking at Universal (brand) Remotes (URC's) and Logitech's. But I'm not too comfortable about storing backup data for a new remote online which the Logitech's appear to require. My cousin has a URC brand and I like the features it had. I just don't know enough 'details' yet to spend limited cash on while on long term disability. Forced retirement of the worst kind.

Is there anywhere online to check actual 'specific' remote (code) capabilities? Meaning is there anywhere to actually see 'exactly which codes' are available for any specific piece of original, just old components, and original RC functions for those components (shown above) for a specific universal remote? Versus Logitech's 'online' storage of user codes? I'd much prefer storing any backups of a remotes 'full' codes for myself on my own PC or backup media. I think many of us already understand that things don't go wrong between 9-5 weekdays when live tech support is available. *lol*

From what I've already seen at Logitech or URC? I'm left clueless as to 'specifically' what will work with what. Needless to say, I don't want to buy something and end up left being disappointed because it couldn't do even half of what I'm hoping for.

Under $200 would be nice. I've got 'a little' spare Christmas Cash to blow IF its worthwhile. Otherwise, I"ll suffer through with what I already have. I know I can't get what I 'want' cheap, "IF" its even available! I want to control the remote. Not the other way around. So I'd like PC control (software) to program any remote with as a minimum requirement. I'd go higher if I absolutely 'had to' to get all that I want. It amounts to "Honey, it'll get rid of all those remotes that you already don't know how use. The new one will be 'easier' for you too! And it'll clean up the excessive clutter of remotes you've complained about." Got a 'honey-do' list to contend with here too. *lol*

Nutt

URC has one of the largest IR databases and their remotes all have the capabilities of learning codes from your existing remotes. You don't have any odd brands in your equipment list, so I'm sure URC would have the codes for all of your equipment.

anyhomeneeds,


What 'if' some of my old 'original remote' 'keys' no longer work? While I don't have 'many 'of those? Some are 'essential'' keys I'd love to 'get back' again.

I'd already 'suspected' that URC was going to be 'the Brand' that would best serve my purposes. From my limited exposure (use) with my cousin's URC remote and what he'd already told me about URC? I don't believe anything/anyone without 'seeing it' for myself. Promises of 'it should work with someone's extensive database' isn't enough when its a 'one times shot' due to limited funds to play the game of musical remotes until I find one that actually does what I want.

You tell me if you please? Would emailing/contacting URC with my full list of components get me an actual "absolutely, all those components have full functionality through codes available through our website." Or would I just get a sale pitch that I'll be disappointed by once I buy something of theirs? Don't forget, this is a 'one time shot' for me on limited funds on disability.

Nutt

OK, here some URC info. Keep in mind these codes are in the PC software but if you get a non-pc programmable remote there is no guarantee that the codes will be in there.


It is in the database, code 524


It is not explicitly in the database but the DMP-BD30 is in the databse and they may share the same codes.


I couldn't find this but I am not sure where something like this would even be.


It is in the database, code 110


Should be in there.


There are a lot of Harmon Kardon codes but I did not find your specific model numbers. Doesn't mean that one of the codes in there wouldn't work.


The J620U is in the database


The 621HF is in the database


It is in the database code 076


Honestly, it is not uncommon for model numbers not be explicitly listed in the database. Most manufacturers do not switch code sets with every model they produce. Usually similar models use the same codes.

Also, most of URC's PC programmable remotes allow you to import HEX codes for your commands so if you can find codes for your devices you can get them loaded.

Which remote were you interested in?

On the harmony side, you can go to their website and see which devices are in their database. Click on one of their remotes and scroll down to the bottom under test drive. I would warn you that the Harmony database is not always accurate.

With nearly any new model universal remote, you'll get at least basic functionality for most of your components. However, there are 4 which may be problematic.

There are open databases for IR codes both here and at hifi-remote.com. These IR codes aren't listed by setup codes, which are just an index into pages of data stored in the remotes, but rather the actual signals themselves. The actual signals are encoded according to 1) a protocol (the temporal pattern of light flashes that denote binary zeros or ones-- there are perhaps 100 different protocols), 2) device number(s), which serve to distinguish, for example, your Panny TV and BluRay, and 3) command numbers associated with each button, so that e.g. the mute button has a different command number than Vol+.

So for a setup code to work perfectly, it needs to match the protocol, the device number(s), and have the correct command number for every button.

Harmon Kardon have used mostly NEC1 protocol, but have a whole range of device numbers, without any obvious system.  And, the command numbers aren't consistent from model to model.  I think that happened because they have used a variety of actual manufacturers.  In contrast, Sony uses one basic protocol (Sony), have a clear system of assigning device numbers according to component type, and rigorously use the same command numbers for a particular function. For example, any Sony unit which can toggle power will signal that with command number 21.  Panasonic isn't quite as systematic, but it's pretty good. 

Anyway, I don't find an exact match for the H/K models that you have.   We do have data for similar model numbers, and those don't match each other.  So it's a crap shoot whether you'll find a good setup code in a pre-programmed remote.

Hifi-remote.com has a exact match for the Samsung DTB-H260F, and my guess is that no pre-programmed database will have a setup code for it.  (It uses GI Cable protocol, device 0)

The URC solution for this is to learn the buttons of the original remote, which is fine if the original is in full working order.  If not, computer programming is necessary, but the consumer line of remotes can't be computer programmed, and the software for the professional line is now being restricted to authorized dealers.  And the cost of the pro models exceeds your budget.

The Logitech remotes have a better chance of having the button codes for an odd-ball component, and that can be uploaded into the remote.  However, ther is a much higher chance of erroneous codes.  Again learning is the fallback.

"I know I can't get what I 'want' cheap, "IF" its even available! I want to control the remote. Not the other way around. So I'd like PC control (software) to program any remote with as a minimum requirement."

But you can get better functionality (for this situation) than either URC  or Logitech-- and it's cheap.  Buy a UEI remote and a USB-JP1 cable.  They have a pre-programmed database similar in scope to URC, and an enthusiastic user community who can help with problematic codes.  Budget $25 for the remote and $35 for the interface cable.  Software is free.

Have a dodgy original remote that doesn't work on all the keys?  You can learn the working keys into the remote, attach the interface cable, and download the data to the computer, where it gets parsed into protocol, device numbers, and command numbers.  The missing command numbers are usually easily inferred from the pattern of similar buttons.  For example, if we know Vol+ and Vol- but don't have the command number for mute, it will very probably be a number adjacent to the other two.  If push comes to shove, you can just try all 256 combinations.  [Other programmable remotes, like the URC pro line or Philips, can also do this, but at a vastly higher price.]

Dog eats the remote?  Spend another $25 on the same or other UEI remote, and upload the old setup (which you've saved on the computer).  Want to try some new tricks with the remote but your wife is using it?  Buy two to start with, and have one as a test mule.

Which UEI remote fits the bill?  I personally prefer the RCA RCRP05B, but that is limited to 8 devices.  You'd actually find that is enough for your 10 components, but a safer choice is the OneForAll URC-10820N, which handles 10 devices.

"and the software for the professional line is now being restricted to authorized dealers."

Are you saying URC is no longer giving dealers the option to include programming software with the sale?

What about top-end remotes like the MX-900 upwards which use CCP, does the same apply to them?

Thanks,
-j.

No, I'm not saying that. In fact, I only know what I've read on message boards, and frankly there seems to be no clear definition and distinction between new software, old software, new database, and old database, much less a clear statement from URC explaining their policies.

Since the OP would only be able to fit a used or grey market professional line URC remote into his budget, I wanted to warn him that he very likely couldn't get software, however it is defined.

There seems to be a raft of threads here and elsewhere explaining or complaining about URC policy in this regard. We really don't need another one, IMO.

Fair enough.
So long as you're not aware of a definite yes to both of those Qns I'll relax again ;)
Thanks!

WOW! I knew I came to the right place to ask my questions. This site seems to be the AVSForum equivalent, just specializing in Remotes in my assessment! Everyone who's responded has exceeded my expectations. So thank you all for all of your inputs here. Sorry for my delay in getting back to this thread but I figured it would take some time for it to 'simmer' here for awhile to get good answers.

So URC is useless for PC software for its 'consumer' models and potentially stingy with sharing its PC software with us mere 'consumers' even for its Pro models? That'll make me take a second look at Logitech and/or UEI and hopefully URC will read my complaint here about their attitude of restricting it purely to pro models & custom dealers who most likely are well beyond my budget. I half understand that, that some half wit might buy it, goof up their own programming, and then drive their tech support nutts because the buyer wouldn't know which end of a screwdriver to use but blame their ignorance on URC. And anyone wonders why Microsoft is an idiots Nirvana? Linux RULES! I'm an old DOS 2.2 goat who knows how to program RPG on an IBM AS/400. I don't know everything but I still know how to learn.

So, just how 'expensive' are the URC Pro models AND custom programming? I would have liked to keep it under $200 but are we talking $400+ to have some custom house program a Pro model for me? $200 - $300 I could probably 'squeeze out' if I save my pennies and can wait to save that up. It the closer I'd get to $400 that my 'honey do' would become too expensive to live with the consequences of convincing her its worth it all. Plus its the dealers 'come back when I change "any" components and for another $100+ they'd reprogram one new component into it for me (IF they're even still in business by then)' that scares the whohah outta me as 'future costs' if I'm not in possession of my own PC software to 'do it myself' to maintain 'any' remotes functionality. The custom LCD screens of the URC's still have me drooling IF ONLY I could possess the PC software to make future changes and backups with. I know, I want too much for too cheap. Dreams are still free, aren't they? *lol* Or has Homeland Security and the Supreme Court just outlawed that too?

I knew my H/K components were going to be a problem. Even my RC Kameleon had issues learning some of those codes. But I also think part of that was it was simply running out of memory for everything I was trying to 'stuff' into it.

I'll also start looking into the UEI models to see how well they might fit my specific needs.

Again, I can't express my thanks adequately enough for everyone's input so far. You've all saved me a lot of homework to move this quest forward as far as you have for me. You've all been tremendously helpful in bringing me further up to speed on this.

Nutt

I think you'll find all the professional grade remotes have restrictions. If not with software, then at least with end-user support. Nevo includes the software, URC you "can" get it if the dealer decides to sell it w/remote (plenty do), pronto it's readily dloadable from their website (no support, & training only for dealers etc), RTI the software is only available to the dealer/CI, not end-uers.

What he said...

Once again thanks to everyone for all the input. You've certainly helped narrow the field down considerably for me. I still have plenty to look into but you've given me plenty to work 'from' as a solid starting point.

I certainly appreciate all the help. Once I've narrowed things down further I may be back with a few more questions but that will take me awhile.

Nutt <><

Hey everyone, I'm back.

As usual 'life' got me distracted but I'm back again. Just quickly reviewing everything people have said in this subtopic of mine. Here is my 'current' state of mind.

Logitech's models may still be appealing from a cost/benefit analysis perspective BUT URC's are hopefully going to be my end result. Because Logitech stores any of my settings for specific remotes on their website I simply don't like that decision being made for me if I should buy one of theirs.

What's still 'bothering' me though with URC's is their not offering PC software I could use for their Pro Or consumer models to 'customize' one of theirs to my own specific needs with the easy ability to make changes at my own leisure and 'backup everything' on my own PC. Doing something like this on a PC would be so much easier than on the remote itself for us older folks with bad eye sight and fat fingers. So . . . question #1 I'm leading up to.

I know I'd read that URC's software is no longer available to consumers. I'm hoping that's changed since I last posted here.

#1 Can one 'buy' the PC software for a Pro Model to program it oneself? #2 If so, how much $$? If not? URC is not looking like a worthwhile investment for me. I'm afraid of what the answers to the next questions might be.

#3 IF I should bite the bullet for a Pro version could anyone give me an idea from their own experiences with URC's about how much $$ it costs to have one of their PRO remotes 'custom' programmed by a dealer?

#4 As newer or different older electronics are added to my system how do dealers calculate an update (after initial setup) programming cost? By Flat Rate whether one new remote or several? Per remote? Worse case, Per function button? Any clues from recent examples others here have experienced? Potentially this 'could be' an exorbitant additional cost for me since I am on a tight budget and even a Pro URC alone would be stretching it for me.

I'm not only considering the initial cost of any URC Pro models but also future 'maintenance' $$ as I'd consider updating its programming for newer electronics I may buy at some point. Or simply changing the way it operates as I'd become more familiar with its features/capabilities. Never owned a URC before so I'm sure there's a learning curve to it to get the maximum out of it. That and the Honey Dew I'll explain later.

Also, individual function buttons on factory remotes. #5 How good is URC at having the 'codes' for EVERY BUTTON and not just 'some' like many cheaper UR's seem to do? Volume/Channel up/down only won't cut it, by far. Its a deal breaker if every button from the factory remotes are not included in URC's database. Or Logitech's for that matter I'm adamant on that opinion and I'll suffer along with what I already have paid for. I.E. LOST SALE!

Sorry, but 'only' getting the 'basic' button functions while overlooking the less frequently used ones for every remote I own is unacceptable to me for the pricing at 'this level' of remotes, $200+ and way above that for a URC remote alone, excluding programming costs.

I have one 'dead' remote and a few remotes with a few 'dead' buttons so I can't 'teach' a new remote to replace those lost functions. That's why I have an 'attitude' about 'any' remote I may buy having codes for 'all buttons' or its not good enough no matter the cost, cheap or expensive.

Software versus having to have a dealer do the programming for me. I admit it, I'm a control freak. I'd much rather do it myself 'my way' versus having to 'accept' the way a dealer may choose to do it for me. Or any "additional costs" if I don't like the way they did it "the 1st, 2nd, etc., times for one update until it was to my 'needs' versus 'their tastes' on how they believe it 'should be' done. At my age my wife and I have worn out the expression, Doesn't ANYONE do anything right the first time anymore? Because its SO TRUE these days!

I was a Programmer/Analyst on an AS/400. So learning software programming for a RC should be a breeze for me if it isn't 'too' simple and overly 'limited' by its features or lack thereof.

I also have a Honey Dew to please and getting her to 'know what she wants and explain it clearly' is like waiting for Niagara Falls to stop running. Don't expect it in this lifetime since like many women with changing her mind she has a PHD in that. *lol*

Hopefully a few people here know what I'm asking and have had similar experiences with 'updating' their URC's several times to estimate costs and have some understanding of 'how' dealers calculate their programming fees.

Thanks to everyone for all the help so far. Its so refreshing to find people who know so much for a change!

Nutt <><

You cannot buy the software but you can buy the remote from a dealer who will provide you the software for free. With URC, you just need to be careful about who you get the remote from. If you buy one on ebay thinking you just got the deal of a lifetime you may end up screwed.


It really depends on the remote model, who you buy it from and how complicated your setup is. Expect to pay between $200 and $1500


It totally depends on the dealer in question and how complicated of a change you are looking at. Some will do small changes at no cost and others will charge you a lot of money.


If cost it a primary consideration just find a vendor who is willing to provide you the software. If you are trouble finding one you can pm me and I can connect you with one. Even if you decide to have it professionally programmed having the software will make it much easier to make changes later.


URC's database is *very* good, but it is not perfect. No universal remote database is perfect. Most times you will find the buttons you need but when you don't you still have options. First you can ask if anyone else has the codes and potentially you can have them send you a file which you can import. You can also import HEX codes straight into the application.


Programming a URC remote is less like programming and more like configuration. Depending on the remote, complicated things may be possible but not obvious. It is definitely possible to program these yourself but expect to have a bit of a learning curve and you must have patience with it. At first it may seem daunting but over time it will all be very natural.

Also, take a look at this: [Link: universalremote.com]

It is a tutorial for a very old remote and things are a bit different now but it should give you a general idea of what you can expect to see.

Dalto,

Thanks so much for the great overview and answers to my questions. Yes, I have a very mixed and large bag of old and newer components as I'd listed at the beginning of this thread. Of the most concern to me are my H/K components since the PT 2300 - PreAmp/Tuner is at the 'heart' of my system as my primary switching device. I've known for a while already that H/K's tend to have some very unusual/uncommon codes for any of their components. And H/K tends to make 'unique' codes even across its own similar models. And that's one remote that not 'all' the buttons still work 'reliably' on so trying to use that one to 'teach' another remote with is a hit or miss proposition.

Anyway, thanks again for the offer of putting me in touch with a dealer who could be worked with 'reasonably.' Hopefully I'll be lucky enough to find one on my own but its very kind of you to offer if I run out of options after exploring those in my area. Its also good to hear that at least some dealers will provide the software so I could do my own programming also. I'm sure we've all dealt with 'some' retailers at 'some' higher end stores who want to fund their entire families college educations with each sale. I don't mind paying a fair price for 'fair' service if I'm getting what I'm paying for. Its the all talk but zero technological understanding purely 'sales only' personnel I've run into at some stores that truly annoy me to death. Needless to say I run and not walk away from those.

With winter on the horizon I'll guess I'll finally find the time to dig deeper into the owners manual files of some of URC's models to get a more detailed understanding of their respective capabilities. I'll also look into that tutorial link you've provided here.

I'm sure I'll be back again once I've done all that.

I've got other questions but I'll post those in the more relevent threads so this one is kept on target to my particular setup.

Thanks dalto (and everyone else here), I knew there were some very informed users here who could steer me in the right directions as I start to educate myself about urc's, generically speaking. This is not going to be a small investment for me so I want to be sure I 'get it right the first time' since I can't afford to experiment with several brands/models till I find the right one.

Nutt <><