Hi,

I'm looking into buying a new URC and my wife really insists on the wow factor of a touchscreen to impress her friends (don't asky why, I don't understand).

So I came here to see if any of you had extensive knowledge on the touch screen remote market.

To guide your responses (thanks in advance!), I have a few direct questions (feel free to answer 1, none, or all 10), though any other knowledge/insights on the market of touch screen URC's would be greatly appreciated. I'm looking for facts, but I'm also trying to reap the wisdom of solid opinions from the people who know URC's best.

1. What is your favorite touch screen remote and why?
2. What is the cheapest touch screen remote on the market?
3. What is the most expensive touch screen remote on the market?
4. Are there any remotes that are entirely touch screen?
5. Are buttons neccessary?
6. What are the benefits/drawbacks of a touch screen remote?
7. What are the benefits/drawbacks of more touch screen space or less touch screen space?
8. How good (use any metric/opinion here, i.e. senitivity, multi-touch, etc.) are the touch screens on URCs compared to say one on the iPhone/iPod touch?
9. I've found a lot of touch screen remotes that tie into home automation, does that explain their abnormally high price? Do these models make sense for some one who does not want home automation?
10. What does the Harmony 1100 do that the Harmony One can't do? (These are the top 2 right now in my consideration set after my limited research)

Thanks a million,
Jason

1) I like the Pronto line
2) not sure, would also depend of your definition of a touch screen, do you mean retail or MRSP....
3) once you get past "remotes" you can get into controllers like Crestron or AMX, depending on what "accessories" you get and how much control you want the prices could get into the tens and hundreds of thousands.
4) for the most part (and assuming we limit ourselves to remotes) no, most people like having some of the basic functions on the remote (like mute, volume or Ch+/-)
5) yes and no, read answer to #4
6) benefits of TS: if well done then anyone can use it, it is easy to press "watch Movie" and it turns on the BD player, receiver and TV and changes everything to the right channel, then having to know the inputs and what needs to be on (or needing to press a button without the real label), it is easy to press ABC and it changes the channel to ABC
Benefits of PB: once you know the buttons by heart, sometimes you can use it without even looking at the remote, you know where the button should be, what it feels like, and you feel for it and then press it, with a TS you need to look at it because if you touch the screen you will touch a button and send a command (on the other hand I have found that some times if the buttons are large enough and the exterior of the screen distinct enough you can be bang on consistently enough.
7) you can have more and bigger buttons that are farther appart with a larger screen, nothing worst then an overly cramped screen
8) I don't have a iphone, and there can be slight difference between remotes, but i would guess they are relatively the same
9)different remotes have different features, the more elaborate the features the more it costs to build.
10) no idea

I wish i could get my girlfriend to be excited about touchscreens.


URC is what many of us call the brand Universal Remote Control universalremote.com. Mentioning this because it may confuse people.


Pronto 9600 and 9800.


There are hybrid remotes that have a tiny touchscreen and a bunch of hard buttons like the Harmony one. As far as pure touchscreen remotes i would say harmony 1100 is probably priced the lowest.


See Anythonys response.


There are touch screen only devices but they are usually part of a control system like Crestron or AMX.


Depends on who you are. Some people want only buttons some want a mix and some want only touchscreen.


Pros: More wow factor. The ability to completely customize your user interface.
Cons: More expensive. Easier to damage. Screen chews up battery.


More commands. Heres a screenshot of a very large touchscreen. [Link: vidacom.com] This user interface gives you control over your entire home.


I have had my hands on many touchscreens. The iphone is better IMO but remote control touchscreens are very good.


Not usually no. Before you buy.. think about your budget and long term plans. Today your looking for a 1 room solution but you might catch the fever and want to start controlling lights tomorrow.


See my response to you at AVS . As far as i can tell, the difference is about $250 bucks :).

|| 1. What is your favorite touch screen remote and why?
MX-3000. Why? Because it lets you do things that most other remotes don't. The ability to have animated gifs, free-for-all graphics, sounds, and a decent amount of programming options (variables, press and hold, etc). Teamed with an MSC-400 a black MX-3000 is a pretty cool option. No, I don't like the actual base, but aren't we talking about a touch screen :)?


Pronto TSU series are cheap. Harmony doesn't count.


Anything from Crestron, AMX, Vantage, etc. obviously, but beyond that RTI T-4 is a pretty pricey touchscreen.


The RTI T4 and MX-3000 come very close.


Yes. A touchscreen should not be crowded. By putting the most common used buttons on the base of the remote your increasing the benefit of a touchscreen by not overwwhelming the client.


Flexibility, multi room control, customization of course.


See #6. However, the T2-C from RTI is an example of a touchscreen with a lot of hard buttons that just works.


Entirely different motion but equially sensitive.


Higher priced remotes tend to offer you third party options and powerful features. Home automation SHOULD make some sense to everyone. It is a good way to conserve energy and reduce energy costs which is what every American should be thinking about.


As a programmer and vendor of high end control systems I don't deal with Harmony and feel that the Harmony one is useless for a lot of my clients. RF is mandatory, a control processor or brain is desirable, and customization is important to my clients. I don't think the One offers any of these and the 1100 to me is just a cleaned up version of the 1000. Harmony reminds me of that first house or first car - you love it but you can't believe how much better you have it now.

1. A blend of the MX-5000's abilities, with the form factor of the RTi T2c

2. Cheapest to buy...possibly a Sony. Cheapest made...most likely the Harmony 1000

3. Considering you said remote, I will say most likely the RTi T4. Crestron, AMX and the like are not remote controls. They are HMIs to control systems...a totally diferent aminal altogether.

4. Refer to #3. I have never seen what should be considered a "remote" that was completely a touchscreen.

5. Different strokes for different folks. I started out with a TSU-7000 and ended up hating the lack of tactile feedback when trying to operate the remote.

6. (refer to #3) I honestly don't see any real benefit other than wow factor to touchscreens when considering a remote. As far as graphics are concerned, you can completely customize a MX-980 to whatever your heart's desire, and then perform the action the graphics detail with the adjacent buttons that correspond to that section of the screen.

7. Bigger screen=more graphics. Bigger screen=bigger remote.

8. No idea other than to say that the lastest offerring from URC, the MX-5000, has what they call "haptic technology". Which provides the user feedback that the screen has been pressed. see RC review: [Link: remotecentral.com]

9. yes... no...

10. The 1100 is considered by many to be the firmware upgrade that the 1000 needed. That's not to say that there wasn't some extremely minor HW upgrades as well with the new model, but IMO nothing that warranted a new release. Many 1000 owners feel short changed with Harmony's lack of support for the 1000 while they produced the 1100 with all the fixes 1000 owners were (and maybe still are?) waiting on.

I happen to like the Harmony One's form factor but I can't stand the wizard programming methodology, and the need to login to Logitech's website just so I can have access to my programming.

You can't compare pricing of a custom remote control to a telephone.
A. The phone is only designed to last a couple of years.
Thew remote is designed to last around 10 years.
B. The phone is produced in the millions.
The remote is produced in the thousands.
C. The phone's price is tied into a two-year contract.
The remote is not.

Yes I can do alot of the features on my iPhone that I can do from my remote, but not at the same time from the same page at the same time, and only limited functions. Using the phone as a remote is a nice addition to a good universal remote, but deffinatly not a replacement.

anyhomeneeds,

Im curious why you feel the iPhone cannot be a replacement to the universal remote control. I've been investigating a few iPhone/iPod touch remotes such as the RedEye and iRule (over on the AVS forum) and am curious about your position. Please elaborate.

smokinghot,

1. Are you describing an ideal remote or are there remote hybrids that eixst?

2. Ive not found any Sony remotes with touchscreens, can you please refer me to one?

3. What is an HMI? And care to expand on why you think Home Automation systems like Creston, AMX are a different beast and not in the remote category?

4. Why is it that no remotes are entirely touch screen? Is primarily about tactile feedback?

5. Were you able to return the TSU-7000, resell it or did you have to eat the cost? Im concerned because like everything I buy my wife, I anticipate this toy to entertain her for about 2 months before she wants something else.

6. So you can custom design the whole screen for the MX-980 or just the orientation? Not quite sure I follow you on that one.

7. You say bigger remote like its a bad thing, do you think a big remote is a bad thing?

8. cool, thanks.

9. I appreciate the simple straight forward answer.

10. I see...


ANY ONE FEEL FREE TO ENGAGE IN THESE FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS, JUST PLEASE QUOTE THE QUESTION YOURE ANSWERING TO AVOID CONFUSION, THANKS A LOT ONCE AGAIN FOR ALL THE HELP!!!!

vbova27,
1. What is an MSC-400 and what does it do?

2. Pronto TSU9800 is nearly $2000!! Thats not cheap! Why is it so expensive? Why do Harmonys not count?

3. What is the added value of the systems you mentioned, specifically the RTI T-4?

4. gotcha

5. gotcha

6. What do you mean by flexibility? And why is a touch screen remote particularly equipped for multi-room control? The RedEye package for the iPhone requires additional hardware for every room and does not support multi room control from one remote.

7. Gotcha.

8. What do you mean by entirely different motion?

9. I agree that energy conservation is an important national issue, but so is money conservation (we are a broke nation).

10. What do you mean by control processor/brain? Do you normally do all the customization for your clients or do you teach them how to customize it themselves? Your advice is super relevant given your expertise/experience and I appreciate it a lot, thanks for sharing. What do you normally install as the preferred remote control?

Have you ever used your iphone as a remote control?

Iphone.....
Slide to unlock
Select app
Navigate app to source
control source

Remote Control.....
control source

While the iphone makes a neat add on that would be perfect for something like a backyard where you just want to start a source for BBQ tunes. It would suck to try and use it to watch TV.

39 Cent Stamp,

1. Can you expand on why these are your favorite remotes? What justifies their $1000+ price tag?

2-4. Gotcha

5. Can you give me an idea of who would want which combinations? This is important because I not only have to consider my wife's preferences,but also relatives, friends and other people who will use this remote.

6. Are there any ways to protect the remote from damage?

7. What about some drawbacks?

8. What makes the iPhone better?

9. I got a fever, and the only prescription is MORE COWBELL. sorry, too easy.

10. I'm glad we got the cross-forum action going, but seriously thanks a lot for all your words of advice. Really means a lot to me that you guys take the time to put in some thoughtful responses. Its really guiding my purchase decision.

Not yet...

I see your point, but those all seem pretty easy to circumvent. Apps can disable the sleep/auto-lock feature. Once you start the app, its running. Step 3 seems to be a step associated with a remote control too and Step 4 is my ultimate goal so I'm glad it can at least do that.


I disagree, I think it makes a lot of sense to have a remote already connected to the internet, though I havent seen anyone implement this yet, I cant imagine its too far off....

Anthony,

1. What makes the Pronto line your line of choice?
2. Broadly defined, and both MSRP and Retail (though Im not quite sure what the difference is)
3. When the prices get into the tens/hundreds of thousands, are they justified or a big ripoff? What value is added at the level of high expense?
4. Are the buttons for tactile feel/to avoid looking down? Why havent touch screen remotes integrated multi-touch like on the iPhone to avoid buttons/looking down.
5. So Yes or no? Im not clear on your answer.
6. I see, what about some drawbacks for each? Surely buttons must have a drawback or they would have never developed the touch screen?
7. How do you avoid a cramped screen? Tabs?
8. I see.
9. Can you name some expensive features and their value added? At this point, Im having a hard time distinguishing the value-added of a Pronto TSU9800 and a Harmony 1100, yet there is a $1500+ price difference.
10. Cool, well thanks a lot anthony for all your feedback! You got this thread going and so I owe you many thanks for getting the ball rolling on this. :)

Step three would happen once with a universal remote. It would remain on the source menu page indefinitely if you don't navigate away.

Let me add in the startup step to each.

Iphone Source Startup.....
Slide to unlock
Select app
Start Source

Iphone Source Use.....
Slide to unlock
Select app
Navigate app to source
control source

Remote Control Startup.....
Start source

Remote Control Use.....
control source


Using the iphone as a remote control is for techy types who want their lives to be a constant project. I am not saying this is a a bad thing. Im saying that unless thats your plan, the iphone is a bad idea. And don't forget that the phone has to be on site anytime someone wants to use the AV gear. Its not very likely that your remote will ever leave the sofa but your phone will follow you wherever you go. Grandma is in big trouble if your not home :).


Not sure what your disagreeing about. I dont think its a bad idea to have the remote or touchscreen to have access to the internet. There are many manufacturers who are using wi-fi to connect touchscreens and remotes to the control system. There are many who have a built in web browser also.

At the installer only forum there was a thread asking people if and how they were using the iphone AV apps. The common response was "its great for the backyard". Reason being that it was nice to take an existing device and give you the ability to control the backyard for a few months out of the year when you use it. The follow up comment was "i would never choose to use this inside because it does not compete or even keep up with a remote control".

So my question is, what prevents the iPhone from competing with the remote control?