Hello,

After spending a couple days trying to read about and understand X-10 technology better, I'm pretty much ready to pull the trigger on a purchase or two.

I think I narrowed my choices down to either the Switchlinc 2 Way Dimmer (2380W) OR Switchlinc PLC Dimmer (2384W) [and a Switchlinc Multi-Way Companion 2382W]. However, I'm slightly confused on the "practical effect" of the difference between the two and how it may relate to my future needs should I wish to continue to automate my home. The differences I see is that the 2380 adds:
- Scenes
- Sends X-10
- Responds to Send Status Commands
- Directly Controls Other Devices

My use of whichever switch I get at this time will be to use my MX-500 to:
(1) Dim/control a set of three can lights in the family room which are controlled by a single 2 way switch;
(2) Dim/control a set of 4 lights in the adjacent kitchen which are contolled by a single 2 way switch; and
(3) Dim/control another set of 4 lights in the adjacent kitchen which are controlled by two different switches (a 3 way I guess).

Do I need the extra benefits of the 2380 based on my desired usage? I'm still a little muddy about what scenes allows me to do. Scenes would simply allow me to program them all to go to a preset level of mood lighting correct. Doesn't the less expensive 2386 allow a limited preset dim also?

What benefits are there to having the switch being cabpable of sending a X-10 signal, responding to a sends status commands or controlling other devices? I just don't want to leave this feature out if it may be useful on the particular switches and uses I described for my home above?

Otherwise, I understand I need an Infrared Command Console Mini-Controller (IR543). How big is this thing anyway?

Well, I know I throw out a lot of information, but I just want to make sure I understand the what I'm purchasing so that I don't box myself in to a corner in the future (after I get addicted to this automation stuff). Hopefully someone will be willing to take up the challenge to answer some of the questions I posed above.

Thank you in advance.
Chris

P.S. - I did read on another site that the switches do in fact tend to get hot. I'm not sure of the wattage of the bulbs in the lights I decribed above (I will find out), but is this something I should be concerned about?

Certainly someone has some insight regarding some of the questions I posed via their own experience automated their home???

No offense intended Chris, but people tend to run from long complicated questions. Not because they don't want to help you, but because there are so many things to look up, research and get the right answers to, it's easier just to move on rather than risk giving bad advice.

Going into a project that complex, you need a pretty good understanding of X-10 to get the kind of happiness you're going to want.

I have found it best to start out with a very simple section, get it working right, then expand. Start with the right switches so you don't have to back track, which of course, you have asked for input on.

The easiest way to describe "scenes" is that that each time a scene is called for, a specific dimmer/switch asks itself "do they want me to react in this scene?" If no, it ignores the request. If yes, it thinks "Oh, I'm supposed to turn on and at 25% level for this scene (or whatever), and does it". Each switch can remember 16 scenes (PCS).

From my experience, here are some opinions I have formed:

PCS brand switches work better than Smarthome switches. They are also far easier to program via a computer. They are all a pain to program without a computer.

The Smarthome BoosterLinc is a very helpful device.

An X-10 meter (Elk brand) is very helpful.

A coupler/repeater is often necessary

Noise filters on certain equipment are necessary, especially surge protectors and some TVs. That's a whole different area to reseach.

Two-way switches, that is switches that transmit an X-10 signal back should be avoided unless you need them for your automation control, which you don't with the setup you propose. The 2-way function can cause collisions on the powerline.

You'll outgrow the one house code capacity of the IR543. I would recommend you consider the IR543AH.

The V572 tranceiver works better than any regular X-10 receiver including the PAT01. Right out of the box it handles all house codes and addresses. And besides, it looks like a more serious piece of electronic equipment.

Scenes are addictive. Yes you want them available on all of your dimmers.

Whatever you think you're going to install starting out, you'll grow to much more.

The above are just my opinions, others may have different experiences.

Now, maybe this will generate some more questions or generate some responses with different thoughts.

Deane

Deane..excellent information. Lot of good thoughts there.

Laytyger....I'm in the same boat as you. I'm getting started with this home automation stuff and feel overwhelmed as you do. I've read and noticed that people really want to help on this site and they provide excellent information. But I've come to the conclusion that you can only get so much out of reading these posts. On occasion, I've caught myself going in circles and asking the same question twice. I guess the only way to really learn is by getting your hands dirty. I have the IR543 ($19) coming today or tomorrow and bought some cheap dimmer and lamp switches ($12 each) from radio shack the other day. I have the MX-500 already that I bought last week for my home theater. The thing is awesome by the way. As Deane put it, start small. Then, as your knowledge progresses, your needs and wants will change. That's when you can ask questions and get specific answers. We'll get through the growing pains together. When I get my stuff, I'll let you know how it goes on this thread. Go get some cheap stuff and start to play around.

Deane...I'd like to get scene capable dimmers but they seem to be $50-$70. Why are they so expensive?? Any alternatives?

I would assume they cost what they do because of some fairly sophisticated electronics. Remember, they have to keep a lot of information in their memory so that they know when to respond, and what to do when they do respond.

Also, the dimmers in the better switches (PCS) are very smooth with 200 dimming steps. I believe the SmartHome switches only have 64 steps and are a bit less smooth.

Unfortunately, PCS discontinued their lamp dimmer, which was grossly overpriced. We're stuck with SmartHome on these, but they are extremely reasonbly priced for what they do. They have a lot of features, but are a pain to program. Once you get them in place, they seem OK. I had one that lost memory during power outages. Smarthome replaced it and the new one seems to be OK.

Deane, excellent information indeed. Thank you very much.

For starters, I have read other posts indicating the the PCS brand of switches is worth the extra money. Most of these post revolved around discussion of the power outage years which knocked out a few Swithlinc switches. I'm still up on the air on whether to spend the extra money since my with-to-be is already not overly thrilled that I want to replace our current (non X-10) dimmers.

The V572 tranceiver (after looking at it at homeautomationnet) sound helpful although I'm a little uncertain as to how that fits into the system. Do you still need an IR543 if you have the V572?

I'll stick to that one question for now.

nygiants, you do indeed appear to be in the same boat as me. My MX-500 arrives today and I'm looking forward to seeing if I can establish a comfort level with it.

I would definitely be interested in following your progress/success. I believe I am going to go ahead and try the scenes capbable switches and now simply need to decide whether to try the Swithlinc brand or PCS. As I mentioned also, the MX-500 arrives today so hopefully I can find some time to program it tonight. I'm currently using a Sony AV-3000 which I bought to test out and I'm curious to see which remote I will like better.

One things for sure, this X-10 technology is exciting!

I hear ya. The other alternative which I've learned from reading other posts is to use a CM11A (or equivalent) and your PC to set scenes. This will allow you to use basic x10 modules and your remote instead of scene capable dimmers. But they say the issue with this is that it eats signal strength.

My previous post was actually to Deane.

Laytyger...I think you'll like the Mx-500. I don't know much about the Sony but people seem to prefer the hard buttons vs. the lcd screen. I know I do. And the LCD screen on the MX combined with hard buttons is the best of both worlds. The MX is pretty easy to setup. Just read the instructions and give it an hour or 2. After that, customizing and learning from other remotes becomes a piece of cake. People say that programability is much simpler with the 700 or 800 but they cost MUCH more. When your ready, if you need, there are things you can buy to add programming to the 500 like the IRclone. I may want it down the road but I'm ok for now.

this whole thing will snowball if you let it.

I started by getting my 57" TV
then I decided to try and hook my pc up to it. That led to building an HTPC
then I needed a remote to control everything so that led me here
then I saw this crazy thing called "x10" on here and now I'm getting involved in that
I'm afraid to think what's next. I need some sleep.

Funny. I too, came here looking for a remote to use with all the home theater components we purchased (after researching them at the HometheaterSpot.com - GREAT site by the way). The next thing I know, I see something called X-10 (actually saw it the day after going to Home Depot and installing some regular dimmer switches in the areas I metioned previously). Then I figured, "hey, why not make them controllable by remote also. . ." and here I am.

I can honestly say that while many say this technology is addicting, I'm just not going to have the $$$ to get into it much farther for some time. That's why I'd like to make sure I get the right thing now to at least control the light over the family room (where the HT is) and the adjacent kitchen. May as well utilize the MX-500's capabilites, ya know? Sounds like a switch with scenes (either PCS or Switchlinc), a IR543, and the MX-500 is a good starting point.

I follow this thread also and let you know my thoughts of the MX-500 after I program it and get a feel for it.

Chris

No, I shouldn't think you would need the V572 if youre' using the IR remote through a IR543. However, you would only be able to operate your lighting remotely by being in the room where the IR543 is located (line of site from the remote). If you want palm pads at various locations to operate the lights while in other rooms, you would need a transceiver of some sort. Either the V572 or the PAT01. The PAT01 operates on only one housecode, the V572 on all housecodes.

I operate certain functions without the use of a transceiver (V572) by generating them within the Ocelot which places them on the power line. Unless I misunderstand the IR543 badly, it would be the same procedure so far as placing X-10 on the powerline is concerned.

Another way to look at the transceivers (V572, PAT01) is that they are nothing more than a receiver that picks up the RF from the palm pad and retransmits the command on the powerline as X-10. The IR543 could be viewed the same way, except that it picks up IR from the remote and retransmits the command on the powerline as X-10.

Deane: Thanks for a load of information that really helps me in my entry to X-10.

I really appreciate your taking the time to answer the long question, because as you say, many wouldn't!

Thanks!!!

Greg

I debated over switchlinc or pcs and went with switchlinc, I now have about 30 of them. Some of them are now about 1 year old and I have had no problems at all. I also agree with deanne invest in filters and a good phase coupler/repeater if you plan on growing your system, it will save you a lot of headaches in the long run.

lawtyger...did you get the mx-500? If so, what do you think of it. I have some very basic x10 stuff going. It was easier than I thought. I plugged the IR543 in and connected a lamp to a module, hit the button on the IR543 and it worked. took 3 seconds, simple as that. then I programmed the correct x10 code in the mx-500 and it worked. in about 5 minutes i had everything working. I bought a switch from Radio shack and it worked but not the way I want. It's not a 3 way and it doesn't have local control dimming which I find annoying. I'll be moving that to another area and buying a different one.

Anyone...I need some advice?
Does anyone have the 2384W switch? If so, how is it? Or, can I get by with the XPD3. I think both have local control and are 3 way. THe 2384W with slave costs about $70 combined vs. $30 total for the XPD3 and slave. Not sure of the major differences between them but all I really need is local control and 3 way so not sure if this will do the trick. I plan on controlling these things and adding scenes later anyway with a cm11a or equivalient.

My plans on growing the system and my wife-to-be's plans on expansion could be more opposite. Let's just say that my system will likely not be enlarged anytime soon (but hey, at least it is a start).

I figure that the need for a phase coupler/repeater is based on varying factors and I really won't know if I need one until things are hooked up. However, is there some general rule of thumb based on the size of the house and the number of appliances, HT components, computer, etc.?