This does not make sense to me becuse we do this all the time with RTI. Crestron is just using rebadged switchers and amplifiers, some of them come directly from sony. We are doing the same thing, just without changing the original names of the products. at lot of companies do this. Autopatch for example is now an AMX badged product am I wrong......

You said "what can Crestron do that RTI cant". I said "Distribute Audio and Video".

Are you changing your question to "what can Crestron do that RTI and a host of other 3rd party companies cant?"

I am not trying to be a pest, I am asking an honest question, because i am actually curious. I not trying to diss Crestron, but isn't Crestron at its core essentially just a control company like RTI or Control 4, who has re badged a bunch of 3rd party components together. In my view there is no difference in me going out and getting a Knox or a Vaux switcher with RTI, Versus using a Crestron system that has a Sony switcher with a crestron sticker on it. So essentially Crestron cant do distribution without a 3rd party switcher being involved in the mix either. So if this playing field is equal, What "control" thing can Crestron do that RTI cant do?

I always hear all this chest beating about how great crestron is, but I am still not sure what could possibly make it all that great when compared to other systems? 

I am beginning to think that all the crestron hoopla is just left over banter from a couple of years ago when it was at the top of the heap, but I now believe that the playing Field has been leveled and there really isnt anything particulary special about Crestron anymore.

I'll chime in here based on my experience with RTI, and the sole reason I am looking at Crestron. Someone PLEASE correct me if i'm wrong. It's my understanding that with Crestron, if you have a device that has the ability to spit out RS232 metadata, that metadata can be displayed on a crestron TP.

With RTI, we are at the mercy of RTI writing drivers, mostly incomplete, with no timetable whatsoever of when what you need will be avaliable, or if they are even currently working on it.

That's what's killing me. I just came from a large RTI/Lutron project, and it turns out that I can't get 2 way because RTI does not have the driver written, and when I ask them when it will be avaliable, they say "well, it's a big deal, so we won't work on it till we release the next version of the software, in a year or so". Yet they wont enlist manufacturer support.

I got a call from a builder today who needs a systenm that can display real time energy usage and solar and geothermal generation, and wants that avaliable on an in wall touchscreen. RTI has no timeframe on any of that. I believe Crestron has it avaliable now.

And I can't speak of Crestron's RF, but the RTI zigbee is a joke with it's poor range and sporadic control.

It seems RTI's driver development has come to a standstill. When the 2.0 software was finally released, they released some good drivers, and kept it up for a month or so, then nothing.

Don't get me wrong, I love the t2c and t3v, and the new in wall/handheld will be great if it ever actually ships. But I need something that works 100% of the time, and can really be integrated.

One thing i will say about RTI is that they attempt to provide a complete solution. Something as simple as including a large graphic set to build the interface with and the IR and RS-232 database being pretty extensive shows IMO that they are trying to make life easy for the CI. I think its safe to assume that they will continue to crank out modules or hopefully allow CI's to build their own. Is this possible now? If so then its a non issue when comparing RTI to Crestron because you will find yourself needing to build your own modules as a Crestron dealer also.

zigbee/RF etc.. As far as remote controls and touch panels go i think the T2-C has very good range. Are you saying the 2way remotes do not?

IMO When you reach RTI's limits its time to move to Crestron. I would put in a vote for AMX but i dont have experience with their current products. What i can tell you without a doubt is their are no limits with Crestron. If it can be controlled, crestron can control it. The extensive list of Crestron hardware makes integration much easier.

If your just after meta data then it might make sense to wait for RTI to catch up. If your interested inmore advanced control then move to Crestron.

Could be amazing, but it's severly lacking on 2 way RS232 ports.



Please tell me what lighting, HVAC, and security you can get 2 way feedback with?

Lutron is very limited. You can't get 2 way with a homeworks p5 wireless processor, cant get feedback on a series 8 processor, have no dimmer level feedback on any Lutron system, and only have 9 LED ststus positions per keypad, when on a phantom there are 24.

HVAC, well, I guess there's Aprilaire, but forget that if you actually want to do any intelligent hydronic systems like tekmar, which is the standard here.

Security, I don't know, but without the ability to wake up a TP during a security event, what's the point.

I'm not trying to beat on RTI, I just want to know how to actually integrate their product in the real world.

thank you for finally putting some good pro Crestron points in here that's what i was looking for.

sorry to hear that you don't have a complete RTI solution for your builder, Its unfortunate because very soon RTI will be able to do everything he is asking for and more.

I spoke with my Friends over at RTI and they are indeed working on a do it yourself driver interface and yes there will be an intensive class to go with it.

RTI drivers coming in a year? i don't have the exact date but it is going to be very soon, they have several guys that just write drivers on staff now, so the driver list will be picking up pretty fast.

RTI touch panels can display rs232 meta data via an XP8 , it is not as fast as the IP method, but it is available none the less

RTI currently has two way working with DSC security systems

RTi has two way with lutron RA and home works, I know that it is not a complete set yet but they are working on it along with other manufacturers lighting products

The , XP8 is an expandable architecture and as such has expansion modules, built or are being built, for example the PCM8 gives you 8 additional IR outputs on the XP8, this can also be used as 8 additional one way serial outputs. The next software release, as i understand it, you will not see the PCM8 the software will just see the XP8 as having 16 MPIO ports. there is also an contact closure expansion module. and some other cool goodies. The PCM8 will be out in November, which means there will be a software release soon and this will more likely than not will include more 2 way drivers.

and yes you can wake up a touch panel and make it jump to a page with any event, contact or otherwise via an XP8, in fact you can use a security event to flash lights turn on tvs and go to camera feeds or whatever else you want

Please elaborate on "Very soon" because it's been my experience that "Very Soon" on the RTI calandar is at least 6 months.


Here's a quote from RTI on my homeworks question: "the Homeworks is some time off because they plan on updating the software to cope with the vast number of variables"


But only for the drivers they have written.

|

Thanks


Lutron, Yes, but it's so severly lacking right now, it's almost unuseable for 2 way. We do alot of homeworks


PCM8 in Nov, I hope so, but it's already 5 months late, and one way, really ?what's the point if you have to add $640 worth of adapters to make it work, and still only have one way comm?

If they have been working on it for an additional 5 months, they should have looked towards a 2 way expansion, that's what the XP8 really needs. A PCM8 plus 8 CM232's at $940, i'd just add another XP8 at that point.


Have you done this? The reason I ask is because I was told by RTI when I specifically asked them about that and they said "no".

If your intel is accurate, i'd be pretty excited, but it's all rumor, and the fact that RTI refuses to participate in a manufacturer forum at IP, and keep everyone in the dark doesn't really help either.

Wow, I really hijacked my own thread!

Yeah they have a bunch to do on that

Thats why i said it was limited

No its coming for sure, I held one in my hand, They are just positioning several things to come out at once

I think that is there intention, just buy a second XP8

Good question, i know i can make a touch panel jump to any page i want, but everytime i did this the panel was already awake so i will have to give this a try and get back to you, but I dont see any reason it should not work.

There are a lot of things RTI needs to get involved in, but they are trying to grow that direction, I beleive that 2010 is going to be a banner year for them and a great many things are going to come to light.

Hey we all do that from time to time

I was told by Clint that it is not possible as of now to wake up a touchpanel. It will do a page flip but not wake up. Although if all you have to do is tap the screen and it has already flipped in idle mode(which it will do) that is most of the functionality anyway.

I think you should post this in the CI Lounge.  You may get more Crestron guys seeing it and able to input some of the crazy stuff they can do.

I know one guy was triggering events remotely via Twitter.  I don't see RTI doing that any time in the future.  :)

From the specs I read on a couple touchpanels you could do videoconferencing, remote desktop, keyboard and mouse inputs, etc.  I don't know how much of this looks good on paper but doesn't actually work the way it looks.  Not saying that RTI won't get there, they just have a LONG way to go to reach the complete flexibilty of Crestron.  Like 39 said, if you can control it, you can do anything you can think of.  Personally I wish I had more first hand experience and got to play with their software.  Unfortunately, we have no need to do most of what Crestron can do on our jobs. 

Still love RTI.  Love them more every time I have to program URC.  :)

I stand corrected, So 1+ percent of the jobs out there I would ever run into could possibly require the power Of Crestron. Twitter huh, if you have an iPhone why would you need to send commands via twitter? I need to read up on this as i am apparently missing something

I have an idea for using twitter...... Teenager is home alone and opens the garage door to take off in the car. Motion detector tweets mom and dad and teenager is caught in the act.

Well that's kind of the point of what I was saying.  I've never needed almost anything that Crestron can do and RTI can't do.

But, what do you do when you have a six figure job where the customer just has to control his house via Twitter?  Do you talk him out of it?  Or do you just get it done?

Yes that's a ridiculous example.  But I'm in the habit of talking people out of things that are out of the realistic realm of what I can do with the lines we carry.  YOU know it's a ridiculous request, and you have to convince your customer to feel the same.  If I had Crestron it wouldn't be a matter of not being able to do it, it would be a matter of if they want to pay for it.  Right now if I absolutely HAD to do something out of the ordinary and money was no object, I would sub out someone to get Crestron into the job.  That's the point.  That's where you can go to do the out-of-the-ordinary.

I still like the HAI class I went to where the guy talks about a window contact on the teenage daughter's bedroom window, HAI's built-in timeclock, and a sprinkler system directly below that window.  If the window opens after 11pm the sprinklers come on.  :)