While I am still waiting for my XP8 I ordered to show up, I am going to vent ... It's a free country (if the moderator agrees) and I bought a ton of RTI in 2007 so here I go.

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Feel free to stop reading now if you do not want to hear me complain
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Has anyone seen any of the specs on the 2 way RS232? I have sent several emails to RTI over the past several months and have gotten pretty much no response. I have offered to beta test as I am sure many in this forum would do but have gotten no response.

I saw the XP8 prototype 2 years ago at EhExpo Spring 2006 and we still do not have 2 way RS232. I would have much rather have seen time spent on the 2 way RS232 than the M2 and the keypads I have never really understood the need for. Apparently there is a big market for these and I am the only one who hasn't figured out the application. I could have also waited a bit longer for the RK2 although I do like this piece for the price point.

Today, I already can do what the XP8 does NOW with the Ocelot. It is a mini-PLC controller and it can send IR trigger codes to an RP-6 and I have used this as a timeclock. I can trigger RP6 system macros on relay closures and a timed events and hook up a few sensors. It a $250 piece you can buy from Worthington. It does 2 way RS232/IR and it uses a very crude form of ladder logic for programming but works nicely. I still can't notify my RTI remote/touch screen that the doorbell has rung and put up a camera. I can put it on a TV but not on an RTI device.

For RS232 relays we have been using a $189 board by Ontrack out of Canada. 8 relays and you can chain together 8 for a total of 64. This is a great interface for running shades. Very easy to use and it works great.

It seems it would be easy enough to expand the concept they already have with the time/date/ip variables and build a string data type and then add a simple pattern matcher so you could just add the response string format into the RS232 library. It would be real nice to know what the plan is now as everyone starts to build an RS232 library. As to the two way RS232 and string variables, I just can not understand why they can not provide this now with the new software on the wired IP enabled devices. I used to do embedded systems (in Intel x86 Assemble Language) in a former life and I can not image that this would not be that difficult to implement. I keep hearing that they do not want to make it "too difficult". Well guys it is too difficult now as a matter of fact, it can't be done now. Bite the bullet and build a simple scripting language so it can be done. It can not be worse than trying to use flags to deal with the lack of conditional logic that exists in the software. They seem to think we are too stupid to program the system if they give us what we need to do our jobs when in fact it would only save us time.

I like the idea of the RS232 library but I am not going to spend time on it. I have aready written tons of system macros and have configurations ready to go when I need them. I guess I will use this for new stuff. I sent an email back in the summer when I was writting hundreds of macros for the Elan System 12 and dealing with the nightmare of trying to run volume up and down over serial when I had no idea of the level. That's when I needed an RS232 library function.

I didn't check to see if the scroll list object had been updated will support adding RS232. Good idea but good luck if you need to add an item in the middle of your list. XM has all kinds of station gaps. When they added XM LED there was no easy way to insert this into our scroll list object.

It would also be nice if the HTTP GET Object actually worked so we could send native IP to the Escient and other native IP devices.

I guess the new software and it's catchy name is a step in the right direction but I do not know if I can wait another two years.

Well, there are other options out there you know...

That being said, I understand your frustration.

However, I think the XP8 is an FANTASTIC addition, even without 2 way.

Why?

Because in one job, I am replacing 3 (THREE!) RP6s with 1 XP8...simply because of all the extra jacks.
2 of the RP6s were in a rack, and I've never been happy with any solution I've tried for mounting multiple RP6 units in a rack. 1 XP8 is a nice 1U rack mount piece (sweet).
Also, the fact there are multiple processors, means that several users can be watching TV with very little chance of their macros causing the others to fail.

Add to that the fact that we can use contact closures and voltages to trigger macros...and all from one easy box...programmed in one software package....

Sweet sweet sweet.

Perfect? Absolutely not. But better than 3 RP6s, and a kludged solution of add-on boxes from various mfgs?... Certainly.

I just hope that URC doesnt get their remotes working 2way first. I had one of their reps tell me by spring.... I dont think RTI will make that mark.

Also RTI doesn't seem to respond to my emails either. I've sent a few to reps who tell me to email them after the training so they can get me a better answer and I never get one.

Although it took forever as long as it works without any firmware updates needed, the XP8 is something I want to start putting in every big multi-room/automation job because short of two way it is a great one box interface that will put my multi-room theaters and automation into one interface.

It's argueable that RTI is running a decent shop, have good products, not sure of the reliabiltity to be honest with you, especially over the course of the last year. I have no recourse but to believe the technology talent there is sub-par. Other companies have grown thier products especially in the multizone and 2-way area of expertise. You could argue that RTI has maintained decent pricing and has many great C2C programs, but cut all that out and hire some programmers that will make a difference. Pay them a kings ransom if you have to. Raise the price of the products if you must. I wouldn't mind paying extra for a little functionality. This processor is NOT such a big deal. I have listened to some of these arguments as to why this thing is so good and I just don't see it or agree with it. When you start talking about URC in the same sentence as introducing innovation to the market, well there are problems. RTI - do what any other company does when the whheels start grinding - HIRE SOME TALENT!

I have also offered to be a beta tester for RTI numerous times. Each time I've been met with the response "well, we like to beta test all of our stuff in-house". I think they have a term for that.... Alpha testing? Although I commend the effort of putting together an RS232 library, after looking through it, they skipped a lot of lesser used commands. The whole point of RS232 is to have greater control than you could with IR. Leaving out half the commands kinda defeats this (note* I am mainly referring to the Denon and Vaux sections, I haven't really gone through the whole thing). I have a binder full of 232 protocols for all of the components that I commonly use (a mega-binder?), which most of the guys who do a lot of serial probably also have. Why then would I need a library? For the newbs I guess. And I couldn't agree more with the M2, RK2, etc argument. Finish what you start before you get going in 10 more different directions.

It's a good processor overall and I really like many of the new features in the new software (IR Test, where have you been all my life), but these are things we have been asking for for years now. RTI just plain needs to get the lead out.

Perhaps it's time we demand some answers and hold their feet to the fire. Perhaps we can get a petition setup in this forum and get a meeting set up with them at the EhExpo next month.

If you are interested post a reply and I will take the lead to call them and see if we can get an meeting setup with their development manager. I would like to see 50-75 responses to show them we are serious and getting impatient. Even if you can't go to EhExpo make post a thread and we will have them post minutes from the discussion on their dealer area.

If you are interested in a schedule and a list of coming features, documentation on their proposed 2 way system, a field beta testing program, and a upgrade path that is more detailed than the standard line we are getting now post a thread.

For all we know they have not started it yet. It could be years. We should be able to get some answers. I need a solution soon or I must find another platform to work with. Getting the box out is a step in the right direction but it may be too little too late as this platform is slowly becoming a relic.


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Sample Response
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I am an RTI developer and it is important I use a state of art control system. I am interested in finding out how RTI is going to meet the commitment they made at EhExpo 2006 to support two way RS232.
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I think this is a complete waste of time . If RTI is indeed tech challenaged they will not get better with "pressure". I am quite sure they want to roll out this stuff ASAP, but are going to have a very patient approach to getting this done. You can argue that there are benefits to that approach as well. Bottom line - RTI is not going to release something sooner than the time when they decide it's ready to release no matter who says what. I am sure they are aware of the need and the concern for a more powerful set of tools and am sure they are operating at 100% efficiency (or the efficiency they are capable of).

You can't rush innovation. Thankfully there are alternatives if you need to do something beyond the scope of RTI's technology, as much as you wouldn't want to. Right now, for me at least, having faith in RTI's product lines in the next year or two is a true "investment". But I don't think that they are going to be ready before they are truly ready.

I couldn't agree more!

Thinkin just the "newbs" want a library??

I have a binder, too. Can't drag and drop from it, though.

I guess we should all just sit back and hope someday they do what they said they were going to do for the past two years and be greatful we have the privledge to by and use their products.

As long as you keep purchasing gear and not making waves, they have no incentive to get this done any quicker. I have made a strategic direction to use this company and have put time and money into implementation of their product. If they do not want to provide insight as to what they are doing and when it will be released then yes there is other alternatives.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask them for answers and to get an engineer to speak to the direction they are moving and provide some realistic time frames.

How many years ago was it that they had two products, the T2 and IRF6 (sp?) and now look at the lineup. I picture them being a little small to be churning out products at the rate they do, and so prioritizing their time is a must. 2 way has to be a real challenge to get right the first time. They've seen how people will jump ship when things don't do what they are supposed to, so they don't want to make any critical mistakes.

It's terrific that they do as many things well as they do.

^^agreed. going 2way will make or break them. I would much rather see it come late and right then explain to the customer why something we sold them wont work and we cant make it work until the company gets it fixed. they made a big step with this processor and other recent products and as they grow the speed they turn out the future products will become more tolerable.

Maybe there is a reason that only 2 company's have mastered the 2-way realm...

I do two-way all the time. Oh wait we are talking about remotes. Look at it this way HDMI has a hard time doing two-way a lot of times still. I just hope that RTI get's two-way before URC. I do both RTI and URC but prefer RTI because I feel that they have better remotes. But if I keep having little problems with T3's and T2C's then I'll be selling more MX's!

Don't forget, Philips has two-way scripting working on the Pronto TSU9600/TSU9400, in a big way. It will work two-way via IP or RS-232 and has things working with a IP browser. They are offering various scripts from manaufacturers which totally complete various processes.

Dave