I am purchasing a remote that supports macros for my home theater system. One thing I don't understand is how a macro can handle commands that are toggled or cycled.

For example, I have a VCR with 3 inputs. The existing remote for the VCR does NOT have a separate button for each input. Instead, it has a button labelled INPUT. When you hit the button, the input cycles through its 3 possiblities, and the VCR front panel displays the current choice.

While that works fine for a human user, a macro doesn't know where the cycle started, nor can it see the front panel display, so how does it know how many times to press the button to get to the right condition?

I would think the same would occur for any toggling or cycling command. Even for a simple on/off. Most devices' remotes don't provide a separate button for on and off, just a single on/off toggle button. If I want to set up a macro to turn all my devices off, but one of the devices is already off, won't it turn on instead?

This seems like it would be a common problem with macro remotes, but I haven't seen any mention of it as a drawback. Is there some way around this that I'm not aware of?

Sure there's a way around the problem, and it's really simple....

dkutcha5,
Please allow me to ask a few questions.

Are you setting up a remote control for your personal use or are doing this work for someone else?

If this is your remote, please tell us what brand/model remote you are trying to use and what equipment you are trying to control. This information will help us to help you.

If you are doing this work for someone else, are you being paid for this work?

If you are being paid for this work, have you considered taking a training class offered by the manufacturer of the remote control?

No, I'm not getting paid for this. Its my own home theater system. The remote I'm purchasing is the URC-200. The equipment I'm controlling is an RCA TV, a Sanyo VCR, a Pioneer DVD player, and a Sony Receiver.

However, I don't think the particular equipment is the issue. This is kind of a generic question. Almost any piece of equipment will have some feature that works by cyckling through a number of options, not by selecting the option with an individual button. Even the simple on/off button is an example. On any remote, for any piece of equipment, there will be an on/off button, NOT an "On" button and a separate "Off" button.

So the question is, how do you program a macro to use a cycling or toggling option (on any device) when the remote doesn't know the starting state of the control?

Truck-Slammer:

>> It's really simple

..... ok .....

Is it also really simple to tell me what the way around the problem is?

The above manufacturers only make 1 model right??

Actually it IS the particular equipment (oex beat me to it).


Not really.



Again, not really the case.


Those that know better, DON'T.

Truck-Slammer:

>> Those that know better, DON'T

Apparently you're only interested in showing everyone how superior you are to me because you know the answer but aren't going to tell me. Obviously, I don't know how to do this or I wouldn't be asking how. Please don't waste my time and everyone elses if its so important to keep this information to yourself.

Read between the sarcasm.

Your brain should be saying, "If I understand correctly, I left out tons of specific info that is needed to answer the question. Maybe I should repost and say I have a Pioneer X model DVD, and a X brand Y Model VCR, etc. Then these guys will be able to help me. Damn, I should have thought of that first. What a dumbass I was for leaving out all the important stuff. Hell, I wouldn't go to the car dealer and order parts for a chevy cause all are the same. My bad."

Get it??

Hello dkuchta5,

For those of you who have already replied to this post please read this persons question again below. It is clear to me that no attempt has been made to answer this persons question as of yet.

"I am purchasing a remote that supports macros for my home theater system. One thing I don't understand is how a macro can handle commands that are toggled or cycled."

To answer the question ...
Macros which contain IR codes that toggle or cycle do not work very well. Macros that do work well are ones that consist of discrete IR codes. I did not know what people meant by discrete codes myself until I purchased my first remote which supported macros and read the posts at this site for a few days. Heck, I did not even know what macros were. Discrete IR codes are codes which only select a specific input or only send a power on command or off command for instance. These codes don't cycle through options via your displays menu as you've described or act as toggles. If you build your macros with discrete IR codes they will be bullet proof. This is what you want to do if discrete IR codes are available for your equipment.

If the original remote control for a give peice of equipment does not have buttons for each input on your television, there may exist IR codes you can use which can cue up each input independently. The same for power on and off. None of my gears original remotes had both power on and power off buttons. It was essential that I find discrete power on and off codes for all my gear that way I could incorporate them into my macros which would completely turn on everything in my system, and completely turn off everything as well. By using discrete codes in these macros you won't need to worry about what the current power state happens to be of a given peice of equipment. If you are not using discrete IR codes in a power off macro for instance, anything that may already be powered off will be turned on when the power off macro runs. You would want to avoid this by including only discrete power off IR codes in your macro. That way if a device is already powered down it won't in turn be powered on when the macro runs.

I would check the files section here at the site to see if there are discrete IR codes available for the components that you own. You would then have to find a way to download or learn those IR codes to your remote, so they could be incorporated into your macros. I am not sure about the remote you said you were going to purchase or have already purchased. I own a Philips ProntoProNG TSU7000 myself. It includes a pc editor to program the remote with, so it is very easy to take any IR code posted in the files section here and add it to my remotes configuration file in the editor, then download that configuration file to the remote.

Hope this helps. I probably did not explain this as well as many here would be able to, but at least I answered your question. Good luck with the remote. If discrete codes are not available for this or that there are sometimes tricks which can be done within a macro to ensure you get the result you are looking for. Just let us know how things are going in this regard. Take care.

Best regards,
LP

This message was edited by Lowpro on 04/29/05 19:21 ET.

LP:

Thank you! I appreciate the time you took to explain it all to a newbie like me. Now it makes sense. I didn't know there were such things as discrete codes.

I have done some searching here and at other sites and it seems like, since most of my equipement is on the older (and cheaper) side, they don't seem to have support for discrete codes. I was, however, able to find some sites that offered advice as to how to find work arounds for the lack of discrete codes.

I also called the manufacturer of the remote I purchased and discovered there's no way to directly enter discrete codes into it. So I'm sending it back to get a better one that does have that feature. I don't really need it now since my equipment probably can't use it, but if I'm going to spend the bucks on a decent remote I might as well get one that will support equipment I buy in the future.

Thanks again! Just knowing what to call it made it a whole lot easier to find the information I needed on the net!

DK

I agree with LP...The amount of grief you got for such an easy question is kind of surprising for this forum...Usually, people here are pretty helpful.

I too have a TSU-7000 capable of using PC input discrete codes, there are little work arounds for gear that does not have discrete codes....

Some examples would be to hit the eject button on a DVD player, which on MOST DVD players will turn it on....So it's a quasi-discrete ON.

I have a VCR that doesn't respond to a discrete ON command, but will turn on using a discrete tuner selection, so that's my work around....

I believe the name of these kinds of work arounds are called TOADS or the name of the equipment that doesn't respond to discrete commands...I forget which...There is either a forum dedicated to them here or do a search for them...

Hope that helps.

My point is simple. tell us the MODELS of your equipment and we can help. The more info you give, even if you think it's not important, the better and more exact our response can be.

LowPro - in your quote from the original post, there is no question in there, mearly a statement.

So to answer the questions in the order they appear.
Q1 - They don't
Q2 - Yes it will
Q3 - Yes there is

Poster's must give us info in order to help. If the question said, "I have a Yamaha DVDS1500, how can I make it reliably turn off? We would say, there are no discrete on/off codes. Use play for discrete on. Then use play - pause 3 seconds - power toggle for discrete off. The multi step off command is called a work around.

Got it?

Quote from dkuchta5 at the start of the post:
"I am purchasing a remote that supports macros for my home theater system. One thing I don't understand is how a macro can handle commands that are toggled or cycled."

He was not asking for help with his specific equipment here. He had a general question regarding how macros account for codes which only toggle or cycle. It was clear as you read further that he did not even know what discrete codes were, and that even if a given remote does not use discrete codes, that often times discrete codes are available, and if not, other work arounds can sometimes be employed within a given macro.

Quote from oex:
"LowPro - in your quote from the original post, there is no question in there, mearly a statement."

Yes, there was no question in that statement. He described not understanding something. He was looking for an answer even if he did not ask a question. I replied to him in kind. It was clear that my reply was the information he was looking to gain based on his reply back to me.

Quote from dkuchta5:
LP: Thank you! I appreciate the time you took to explain it all to a newbie like me. Now it makes sense. I didn't know there were such things as discrete codes.

He was not interested in having his hand held. He also did not have to put the statement I quoted in the form of a question to get the appropriate reply.

Quote from oex:
"Poster's must give us info in order to help."

He did give us information. He was speaking in general terms and was looking for further insight. He was not looking for assistance with his specific equipment in this regard. He continued to harken back to wanting a general understanding while he continued to be ignored.

Quote from oex:
"Your brain should be saying, "If I understand correctly, I left out tons of specific info that is needed to answer the question."

Well he did not understand correctly. That was clear, so how could his brain tell him what you think it should have.

Quote from oex:
"Read between the sarcasm."

How about reading the entire post in context first before replying to the poster. Dkuchta5 made himself perfectly clear as to what he did not understand and someone could have simply given him the clarification he needed.

Quote from dkuchta5:
"Most devices' remotes don't provide a separate button for on and off, just a single on/off toggle button. If I want to set up a macro to turn all my devices off, but one of the devices is already off, won't it turn on instead?

This seems like it would be a common problem with macro remotes, but I haven't seen any mention of it as a drawback. Is there some way around this that I'm not aware of?"

It was the people replying to dkuchta5 who were insisting on talking about his specific equipment. He was not. There was nothing about his equipment we needed to know in order to pass along the information it was obvious he needed to know.

-Lowpro

This message was edited by Lowpro on 04/30/05 05:45 ET.

dkutchta5,
I am sorry if anything I said offended you. My intention was to help. Because my time is limited, instead of giving an entire class on control systems, I was hoping to help you specifically with your issue.

Even though your equipment may not have what you want in the way of discrete command codes, the URC200 may be able to help you with that. It will just take you a little time to work your way through the possible codes. I have been successful on some equipment, including RCA and SONY, with other URC remote controls.

lowpro,
Thanks for taking the time to give a great explaination on the need for discrete codes.