Ive just had that urge that im sure so many of you can relate too...the what if i did this syndrome.

Well this is what i did: -

I moved my centre speaker from on top of the telly, put it on the floor vertically (on its end), recalibrated the levels and then sat back for starwars episode 1.

This quote from the THX website sums up what i experienced for a lot cheaper: -

You will experience a more uniform sound envelope. The front and surround soundfields will merge, seamlessly putting you into the motion picture.

Sound localization will be more accurate and focused. You will notice that sound closely follows the action on the screen.

Im amazed that by setting the speaker this way the surround effect improved dramatically, so much so i'm going to redesign my proposed AV rack so i can accomodate the vertical centre.

Thats it in a nut shell, i've had my centre horizontally under the TV, horizontally ontop of the TV and now vertically under the TV, the latter by far the best.

Where do you put yours and have you tried it stood up?

john

This message was edited by john on 05/25/02 16:02.42.

I can't find that quote on Lucasfilm's THX pages. (can you provide a link?) What I do think is that speaker manufacturers spend thousands of hours mic'ing different areas and then making certain a faithful recreation is reproduced, and that particular sounds and effects go where they should go, providing proper decoding is used.

I have seen advice in regards to keeping the speaker upright when using a conventional two way speaker as a center channel. That's because the speaker was designed to radiate a particular dispersion pattern in the vertical position.

When using a purpose-built dedicated center-channel speaker I'd say that reasonably capable people oversaw the development of that speaker's dispersion pattern and they probably got it pretty close to perfect.

If you read closely THX standards have some variances with Dolby 5.1 - and then to mix things up there's 7.1, 8.1, (40:1 Oil/Gas ratio).

IF YOU LIKE IT, that's all that counts.

Heres the link. i just liked the wording they used and thought it fitted how i felt. its a passage about home thx and is nothing to do with center speaker positioning.

[Link: thx.com]

IF YOU LIKE IT THATS ALL THAT COUNTS.

uhm not all the time, sometimes its more about other people than ones self.

whats 7.1,8.1 ? are they official THX , Dolby and DTS formats?

thanks for your thoughts on this and on the av rack in the installers forum.

john

Guys, most center speakers use what is known as the D'Appolito arrangement, which has a tweeter (or tweeter/mid) flanked by a pair of drivers (mids/woofers). My DefTechs use this alignment, except that the center is horizontally set. I will experiment.

I've noticed that the center speakers that are three-way have the tweeter and midrange vertically stacked between the typical woofer pair. Some even have the tweeter/mid on a rotatable plate, to keep them vertical regardless of the cabinet orientation. This is for all of the same reasons as below:

The theory behind the design is that (ideally) the sound produced by the two drivers will sound as though it is originating from a point between the two. By placing the tweeter between these two drivers, all of the sound 'should' seem to emanate from one point, the tweeter's location.

What is being forgotten here is that the two drivers are not equidistant from one ear, not to mention two ears. By placing the speaker cabinet vertically, you are re-orienting the drivers so that they are all the same distance from, well, each ear. Once again, the sound will seem to emanate from a single point.

This is the advantage of coaxial speakers, like the KEF Uni-Q speakers. The disadvantage of the vertical position is, besides asthetics, the possibility of the speaker being in the line of sight to the display. If it works for your setup, it should be an improvement.

Larry
www.fineelectricco.com





This message was edited by Larry Fine on 05/25/02 19:38.19.

RE: "are they official THX , Dolby and DTS formats?" Read this from Krell:
[Link: krellonline.com]
Everyone seems to think they invented 7.1. (Or they word their propaganda so they hope YOU will think so.)
The first time I saw a reasonably priced 7.1 processor it was the Lexicon DC-1. Now everyone's got it.
Lexicon wants you to use two side surrounds and two rears in addition to the L, F and C.
[Link: lexicon.com]
Yamaha has suggested using two front effect speakers placed considerably higher than your display.
I see Mfr's. claiming their 7.1 processor/reciever is THX ULTRA certified, but I can't find a reference to 7.1 on the THX site.

5.1 is what THX is certifying. That's what I'm listening to, but not because I refuse to think outside the box - a friend of mine has a 7.1 Denon setup and he loves it. When I get time to go listen I may just pull some extra speakers out of the garage and give it a test drive. I've got two extra new speakers that are identical to my other surrounds, which leaves the question: Is this doing the right thing since my Yamaha's front effect channels have less power than the 5 channels? (35 watts x 2 compared to 110 x5 ??)

This clearly deviates from THX spec's. Lexicon on the other hand does not do power, at least not in the processor. (They do rebrand some really cool Bryston HT amplifiers.) So with a setup like that you could pump the same wattage to all your surrounds. But again, the sound is SUPPOSED to have been recorded in 5.1. (Read "Encode vs Decode" from Bryston's website.)
[Link: bryston.ca]

Now I read Tom Holman is demo'ing 10.2 systems ! Mother of Pearl !! 14 page article here:
[Link: smr-home-theatre.org]

(You don't ask about 40:1.... I'm a little worried about your lawn.)

Sheik,

if you saw my lawn and you care about gardens you'd shoot me, its a weed garden. Thanks for those links i'l check them out, i read about Tom Holman a while back.

Out of interest (you got me curious) what is 40:1 i live in the uk and well its all electric and packet stuff.

Larry,

as always you provide excellent info and probably explains why my centre sounds better on its end (its cheap). But its worth a go just to hear the effect it makes.

Over in UK ive seen pictures of centres on end and B&W make a range with L,C,R in that can be positioned either way so as you can guess you could lay the L & R horizontally to match the centre.

Was much easier in my case to turn the centre, (imagine floor standers on stands and on theiir sides) how would the misses cope with that?

thanks

john

RE: "uhm not all the time, sometimes its more about other people than ones self."
John: You're a giver; sorry to turn your thread into a garden weasel. But now that it's done...

RE:"Out of interest (you got me curious) what is 40:1"

It's one of several oil to "petrol" ratios for small, 2-stroke infernal-combustion engines. (Petrol in your honor - we call it gas.) I say small because most larger 2-strokes have an oil injection system. (Snowmobiles, Jet-Skis, street motorcycles.)

I have a 2-stroke "weed-whipper" ? "string trimmer" ? that I use as an edger as well. You have to mix the oil and gas. I bought a fancy four-stroke model (more environmentally friendly, and the little "thumper" sounds COOL) but did not like the way the power came on. I tuned and tweeked, was going to make a high-lift cam out of an old paper clip, and then just pulled "old faithful" (2-stroke) out of retirement.

An Englishman without a proper garden?? Yeah, I have a hard time keeping up with mine too.

Are you getting a deal on the B & W's over there?

RE: 40:1

you got me well interested in the infernal-combustion engines so im gonna have to ask for an education lesson.

you say most larger 2-strokes have an oil injection system.

Q. i always thought they were petrol driven. Now you got me thinking that its the oil thats driving it and thats why you have to top up the oil every so often.

can you explain it to me please so i can baffle my friends.

I really feel like i didnt pay attention somewhere in my childhood.

Men, engines, every boy should know about oily engines.

RE: B & W's

i looked at them when they first came out, but havent got a deal on them...but now you come to mention it i may have to enquire and see how much i could get them for.

john

ps: the english man and his garden thing, thats for the oldies. We youngens are far to recless to look after a garden.

Well John, it's off topic, but after all it was YOUR topic, so who better to veer asunder than you?

Two-strokes requires some sort of top end and lower end lubrication. That lubrication could come from pre-mixing a ratio of gas and oil, as in 40:1, 24:1, so on and so forth.
(X parts gasoline:X parts oil.)
If the engine is injection equipped it has an oil tank and a small engine-driven oil pump that delivers an adjustable measure of oil into the fuel system just before it is atomized and introduced into the combustion chamber, usually via a cylinder port or a rotary valve. A two-stroke engine does not have any oil in the crankcase.

(You may see some early Saab 96's and Sonnet II's in the UK - Those are two-stroke.)

Now, that I've filled you up with useless knowledge since you can't have any two stroke devices in the UK, go back and enjoy your HT.