Hi, Has any one heard of or actual used speaker cables from a company called Knukocept? They sell their cable on e-bay and proclaim that their cable has more strands per conductor then any other brand. For example their 16 gauge has 224 strands per conductor. How important is the number of strands in a cable? They also sell cables as low as 10 gauge. Is there a major difference between 10 gauge and 12 or 14 gauge? Or is it an ego thing? My cables bigger then your cable. ;)
Thank you for any information that you can give me.

"There's no substitute for cubic inches."

Think of your cable as "pipe" - If the city tried to use 1" pipe to supply water to your whole community there would not be enough volume to feed the demand.

Lower and even Mid frequencies are "fatter" than high frequencies. In the water analogy this equates to volume.

If you plan to use little "twisty-cubes" then perhaps 16 guage would serve you well enough. The drivers in this type/size of speaker can hardly be classified as "midrange".

If you've got speakers with midrange drivers over 5 inches in diameter you should probably consider 12 guage.

No matter what speakers you use, if you go any distance at all (over 15') then I'd suggest you migrate to 12 guage.

Small bookshelf class speakers with short runs of wire, you could get away with 14.

Bottom line: You won't get good midrange or upper low end frequencies to squeeze through constrictive speaker wire. You could have great speakers and be starving them by scrimping on the wiring.

BTW: I bought 2 x 500' rolls of Monster OMC twisted pair THX cert. plenum jacketed 12 guage on ebay. (It's an ego thing: My cables bigger than your cable!)

This message was edited by Sheik_Yerbouhti on 05/06/02 23:42.21.

I am an audophile, and a home theatre enthuisast dbx. I try not to be a snob, which is unfortunately all too common I have found. On the subject of speaker cable, I have found no scientific proof that the 'average' user will benefit from exotic high-end speaker cable. By average, I mean a user who spends under $2000 for speakers and a receiver. I have always used 12 or 10 gauge stranded cable. I buy it at a place like Home Depot or Fleet Farm. It's usually covered with clear or gold plastic. Given that the amount of current is actually quite low that is being sent to speakers, I see little reason to spend an inordinate amount on cable. Buying from EBay of course has two potential drawbacks. One is being able to test and return something for a refund. The second is if it's so good, why can't you buy it locally at a good Hi-Fi store?
Just my advice/opinion- not interested in a debate on this.

Dale

This message was edited by dalem589 on 05/14/02 11:03.05.

dbx,

If you search through this forum you will find several threads discussing speaker wire quality, including one I started myself. The general consensus I think we've all taken away from these discussions is similar to the comments posted above:

1) Esoteric wire "quality" does not seem to produce an audible difference. "Radio Shack" quality wire is fine for most of us.

2) Size does matter to some extent. 16 guage wire is generally recommended for small speakers and short runs. 12 guage is much more commonly used (dare I say "standard"?) I belive most of us use 12 guage wire in our systems.

In the days when I only had to hook up two speakers, I was a cable snob. I used 10 guage Esoteric Audio, woo. When I graduated to a Pro Logic setup, I ran 12 guage Original Monster to the sub, then I used 16 guage Monster XP to reach the two back channels (at 50 feet per speaker I couldn't afford anything more).

About three weeks ago I completely re-located all my components. This required me to buy some new wire, as all the run lengths changed. Based in large part on the consensus I gathered from this forum, I decided to standardize all eight speakers* with 12 guage Radio Shack wire.

*(I now have a 7.1 system and send speaker-level signals to the sub).

I had to lower the surround speaker levels by 1db each, which I assume can only be due to the change from 16 to 12 guage wire and shorter runs. I did not have to change the main speaker levels at all, even though I am now sending the signal 65 feet over the 12 guage generic wire vs. only 15 feet over the 10 guage Esoteric Audio stuff.

Most importantly, despite all the jargon about "tighter bass," etc., I can hear no differences in the quality of the sound. Anybody want a few hundred feet of Monster Wire? :) (Just kidding, I already gave it away).

-Bruce



This message was edited by Bruce Burson on 05/15/02 05:39.16.

dbx: No cable snob here - I had also read reviews elsewhere and was all set to buy 12ga. Carol Cable. I had a lot of places to go with it, upstairs etc. so I needed quite a lot. OK, I always do overkill, but for what was basically the "muzak" that I'd be pumping upstairs I didn't need anything special.

My mention of my eBay transaction was only to let you know that when I looked the last place on Earth I thought I'd find good wire, I found it.


I took a side-trip to eBay and found the OMC-2R CL-500 on a Dutch Auction from...
Home Depot Outlet !!
Turns out they just couldn't sell it alongside less expensive cable and zip-cord.


I suppose I could have, however I paid $219.00 per roll, including S&H. A week later my friend's installation company hit a repeat of the same auction & bought 10 rolls for slightly less. Generally his customers WANT to see that Monster label imprinted on their wire.

I will admit to being gobbled up by the Monster-ness of the brand name, but I knew it as it was happening, and retail on that wire was $1.50 per foot, so I think I did OK.

What did I get?

UL CL3 Rating; To meet codes should some snoopy escrow company ever call a pre-sale inspection.

I got big pipe; My stance is still that you can't squeeze cantaloupes through a garden hose without making mush.

Twisted-Pair; Promotes noise rejection, I don't think you'll hear an argument on that.

What did I NOT get?

I did not get this outstanding deal on Carol Cable 12ga.
[Link: partsexpress.com]
It's a suberb deal for 500' although I don't see twisted pair mentioned anywhere, and I did have some near misses at intersections with AC wiring, so I might have gotten a bargain after all.


Bruce: I doubt that was squarely pointed at me, but let me clarify what I meant to say: Through weasel-ish wire you're getting reduced bass. With that and attenuation in mind, dbx might consider 12ga. If it were otherwise we'd all be using Cat5E and saying the 16ga. users were in overkill.

In defense of "esoteric" cabling (not specifically the brand name Esoteric), if you've got "Big Guns" caliber equipment (which I do not) subtle improvements will show through with upgrades. I've heard it, I like it, I'm not paying for it. I'm citing snob lore here as I say the percentage of return for your dollar diminishes as you ascend the upgrade ladder. When that percentage realistically disappears and you become a "tweak" is debatable, but it IS their money. Suffice it to say that fancy wire is never going to turn Yamaha into Krell.

Sheik,

You're correct, I was referring to the jargon one encounters in the wire companies' advertising.

As I mentioned in my original post, I agree with your comments about guage, and with dalem's post about fancy wire not being worth the expense without equally fancy components.