I am looking at installing a ceiling mount projector in my new theater room. I am looking at a Runco. Either a VX-1c or VX-1cx. Any owners? Any other recommendations?

Thanks,
Bruce

As long as you keep the picture size to 100" or less, these single chip DLPs produce a decent picture. The cx is definitely an improvement, but both are 4X3 chips so they have the unavoidable and very annoying "light spray" around the top and bottom of 16X9 screens. An alternative would be the Dwin DLP.

Unless you find a real steal (since both models mentioned are going away VERY soon), I would wait for the new 16X9 chip projectors. The Sharp is shipping in limited quantities. The Runco will ship in October. The Runco will of course include it's controller which makes better pictures and gives you discrete IR codes for power, source and aspect ratios.

randy

I would seriously condider Seleco or Dream Vision. Runco is a nightmare,IMHO. As far as the chips go, it really depends on the screen. If you are mostly going to watch DVD and HDTV on a 16:9 screen, wait for the new projectors with the 16:9 chip and "candy cane" color wheel, especially if you are prone to the rainbow effect. I would not buy a sharp, as they do not make their own light engine, and a Runco is really a Zenith/Barco combo unless you wait. NEC will be building all their new projectors. email me is you want more detailed info. triggerfish333@hotmail.com

Stay away from Runco, you don't want it, trust me. I've seen the Dwin DLP and I must say it's probably the best DLP for the money. The picture on the Dwin DLP was amazing, very close to CRT.

AS far as 4:3 or 16:9, ask yourself what you'll be watching more of. If it's 4:3 material, I'd say you're ready to buy. If it's 16:9 or a lot of DVD, I'd wait till the new Dwin transcanner2 DLP is available. (From what I hear December)

Hope this helps,

JJP

Our company installed one Runco Projector about 3 years ago and the problem we had with it was the excessive fan noise, the customer really complained about it. I don't remember the model number of the one we installed but maybe the later models are not as bad. We have already twice change the bulb in it which is quite expensive as well. One projector for home theater that has performed very well for us is the the Sony VPL-HT10 (I may be wrong on the model number, I am going by memory) LCD projector. It has excellent visibility even in rooms that have some light coming in it. Each was used the Draper 96" drop down screen and the customers were very pleased and satisfied with the end result. We had one install that the customer wanted a 200" screen, but I really dont recommend it, the 100" size screen I think is perfect for the home.
Jeff

thefish,

You are incorrect. The Runco DLPs are, as ALL DLP engines are, Texas Instrument based. The original Runco DLPs also had NEC electronics in addition to Runco's own modifications.

Runco has used Zenith, NEC, RTF and Barco for CRT units. Current units are Barco, near future are NEC. The Zenith & RTF relationships have been over for a long time.

The following are general comments based on my OPINION and experience (therefore argueable) mixed in with some facts that can't be disputed. Take them for what they are worth!

We sell a LOT of Runco CRT projectors and feel that they are some of the best built. Their low end DLPs (the recent ones built by Runco) have been nothing but a nightmare to get reliably running until recently. We have installed serveral in the past few months without any problems and our older units have all eventually been fixed and running fine. Runco's committment to support is second to none (yes, their tech support sucks, but they will always do what is necessary to make the customer happy).

Most of the problems have been associated with their controllers (designed and built by Runco) and the interaction between the two. Most of the problems have been in quality control in manufacturing. Runco realizes this and has decided (as announced at CEDIA) that they are no longer going to manufacture. They will continue to design their own products and modifications to products and NEC will build them for them. This does NOT make them NEC units as the ones designed by Runco will only be made as a Runco unit. Modified products such as CRTs, Plasmas and possibly future DLPs MIGHT appear as an NEC, but not marketed to the consumer market in the US.

When they work they are much better than any LCD, including the Sony which I have seen side-by-side in press shootouts and the DLP ALWAYS WINS. I have also seen them compared to the Seleco and Dream Vision and everyone in the room (independent press, plus various brand dealers) felt the Runco blew them away in picture quality. However, I agree with John that the Dwin is better as far as picture quality, but I disagree that it even aproaches a CRT. The Dwin also has the problem with a historically unstable company who's service policies when they break being very inconsistent. I have been loaned two demo Dwin units and both had problems with the Transcanner (scaler).

I still stand by my statement to wait for the 16:9 chips (because of the light spray which is VERY noticeable on ALL 4:3 DLPs, the Dwin included) UNLESS you plan on using a 4:3 screen, which I can't fathom for any theater enthusiast. I have not seen the new Dwin so I can't comment on it. I have seen the Sharp and 3 Runcos.

randy

Randy, just looking for a simple answer:

Are you saying that, right now, CRT's are still the best, cost considered or cost not considered (answer both ways)?

If not, what is?

I'm asking because, right now, my video is my weak link, considering the cost of quality projectors. I'm using a NovaBeam 100 that was upgraded with Ampro CRTs, but it still sucks. The convergence geometry is a tad off, and the red shakes for about 15 minutes during warm-up. At $700, I couldn't pass it up, though. I have a Sharp XG-1500U that needs a bulb, which I might replace some day, maybe to sell the unit.

Any advice/opinion is appreciated.


Larry

Randy,
Just to get the facts straight. All DLP projectors on the market today are based on the Texas Instruments DLP chip. That is completely different than the light engine. Most manufacturers use the Davis light engine. Seleco, on the other hand, builds a completely sealed light engine from the ground up (with a TI chip). To be more precise, the parent company SIM2 builds them. In my opinion, a sealed light engine is quieter and not subject to dust related issues. I have never had a problem with a Seleco, and every Runco we have sold comes back for one reason or another. You are definitely right about Runco’s customer support, it sucks. They have never done anything to make me want to continue to do business with them, and I have never had them attempt to make anything right without incurring some kind of expense. I am just stating our experience, and it is quite possible you have a better rep than I do. I too was at Cedia, and at the Runco meetings, and heard what they said, but I think it is a little too little too late. It seems to me that everything they build themselves (controllers, DLP’s, etc) has some problem. Personally, I just don’t trust them, and would rather put my money in with a company that manufacturers the product and can control quality, than one that buys their product from other and is straightjacketed buy what they are sold. I agree that DLP is superior to LCD, and depending on application CRT may be the way to go. I could go on all day, but I have a business to run.

thefish

Larry,

As a simple answer, YES CRTs are superior in picture quality. The black levels and color acuracy are second to none. DLPs and LCDs are superior in light output.

Now, throw the money factor into it and it depends on your desires and budget. If you have $5K or less to spend, there aren't any new CRTs to consider. There are many LCDs and a few DLPs to consider at this price. Always go with the DLP! Same for $10K, but a few projectors now enter the picture. Get to $15K and more projectors come into play. Go to $20K and I would never consider a DLP or LCD unless you have a room you can't control the light in or you have installation obsticles since CRTs MUST be at a specific distance and centered on the screen.

The bottom line in my opinion is that if you want picture quality, keep the size down and go with the CRT. You want size, go for the DLP.

thefish,

I was responding to your comment about not buying a Sharp since they don't build their own engines. As you have pointed out, very few companies do, and as I pointed out they are all TI based. TI choose not to get into the consumer market and make final products. But don't fool yourself into thinking that they have not had a guiding hand in the engine designs. They have worked with all manufacturers (Seleco included) on engine design and do all of their chipset testing and development with basic engines that they allow others manufacturing rights to.

Just because a company does not manufacture a product, does not make it a bad product. Almost every category of products does OEM purchases. FYI, there are only 2 major scuba tank manufactureres worldwide, yet I found over 40 brands on a search. By your way of thinking, you should ONLY purchase Meridian surround processors since they are the only one writing their own DSP and dejittering code. Hey, wait a minute, I am an avid Meridian fan....so maybe you ARE right!!

Obviously people have different opinions and experiences. Mine with Runco as far as customer support is quite good, Seleco has a less than stellar reputation in my area. Different parts of the country (world?), different experiences.

As I stated, yes, Runco has had problems and I am giving them a chance to make it right. If you have given up, so be it. We are loyal to our manufacturers, especially those that recognize a problem, admit it and layout plans to fix it!

Worldwide, Runco has made a name for themselves and dominates the high-end home theater market. Their name recognition is like Sony at the low end (we joke that America spells "video" "SONY"!).

Seleco has a long road to travel in the US as does Dwin (due to past history). This does not make them bad vendors and if you are having great luck with them then continue to do business.

I am in no way attempting to tell you how to run your business. This forum is doing exactly what it was meant to...allow people to share their views. Rest assured that I will remember comments like yours if and when it becomes time to look for another vendor, either as an addition or replacement, so I DO appreciate your comments!

Again, thanks for your inputs and opinions!

randy