Hey Folks!


Well I finaly made the leap and am now the proud owner
of the Onkyo TX-DS787 THX-Select 6.1 Receiver which is
enroute to my home from Fla. I am franticly searching
the net for cables and a component cabinent and tons of
other items that I can think of. I told Mike Riley in
an email that us A/V nuts all suffer from an affliction
known as "GottaHaveItis" and this is sooooo true! :)

This week or next I plan on purchasing a new set of AR
HiRes front stage tower speakers (probably AR9's) and I
need to get a grip on what all cables I need to hook up
both digital and analog connections. Since I will have
a fairly expensive receiver I am also looking at a nice
pedastool Tower Rack from Bush that will hold 4 A/V
components as well as CD's DVD's and VHS's. I also need
to pick up a set of wall mounts for my rear satelites
and I am still at a loss as to how I am going to run
the speaker leads down the wall and up the wall to the
satelits. Aye Ya Ya Ya!

As much of a PITA as it is to sort this all out, It is
a ton of fun! And when completed when I watch a movie
it will be so worth it :)

Fun, fun, fun! I'd rather set up a system than watch it (almost). As long as there are no 'fire-blocks' in the wall (pieces of 2x4 that are nailed in horizontally between the studs), you should be able to run the wire into the wall at the baseboard and out behind the speaker.

The best way to fish the wire with the smallest possible holes is to drop a length of beaded chain (like the kind used for ceiling fans, and can be found sold on a reel, or use several smaller lenghts joined by those little joiners) in the upper hole, pulled out of the lower hole by a strong magnet moved along the baseboard, connected to the speaker cable with a piece of string (it has to fit through your holes, obviously), and carefully pulled in, up, and out with the chain.

Larry

Larry,

Well damn thats a brilliant idea! You certainly know
your stuff :)

Say I make a hole that is 1/2" is there any sort of
plugs available to dress the hole? Sort of like a ABS
plastic grommit? This house is relatively new so the
only horizontal beams would be the headder and footer's
I thought about running the wire inside the wall behind
the Receiver and then across the attic and back down
the other wall. But dad tells me that I may not be able
to do that since the wall the TV is against is one of
the external walls and the roof end truss is probably
against that headder. So in all likelyhood I will run
the wire along the baseboard under the carpet and then
go inside the wall and up and out where the sat's will
sit on thier brackets.

Brett: With few exceptions, there is no reason the truss bearing on the 'header' makes a difference. Actually, what you're referring to is called the 'top plate'. A header is the beam that is laid above an opening like a door or window. The top plate is two layers of 2x4 laid flat accross the tops of the studs. They use two layers for two reasons: it makes corners and intersecting walls easier to join, by overlapping, and the joists, rafters, and/or trusses don't have to be directly over the studs (which is called 'stacking').

At the bottom of the wall is (you guessed it) a bottom plate, which is a single 2x4 laid flat. The studs stand on the bottom plate. What makes the job of snaking wires in an outside wall difficult is the insulation. A fishtape is usually required because it is stiff enough to push past the insulation batts. The inside side of the insulation is faced with a kraft-paper vapor barrier, so if you can keep the wires between the paper and the backside of the drywall, so much the better, but it's very difficult.

The second difficulty is drilling a hole through the top plates below a low roof, but it can be done, more easily with an angle drill. Just remember to think three-dimensionally, so you don't drill into the room or through the outside of the house.

Is it possible to go under instead? Unless your room is on concrete (referred to as a 'slab'), your crawlspace should be easier to use. Just remember the three-dimension thinking again, especially again on the outside walls. It's easy to find inside walls from underneath, if you know what to look for.

Email me directly if you need more help. I'll even give you my number if you need one-on-one help.

Larry

This message was edited by Larry Fine on 09/17/01 01:04.23.

Larry,

You da man :) Sorry I used the incorrect terminology
I am just a ambitious D.I.Y'r. I understand the way the
walls and truss are constructed and laid out and how
the inside of the walls are. I would go underneath and
I could have gone underneath as this is a ranch house
on 12 courses of block. But a few years back me and my
dad finished the basement by framing it all in and then
drywalling everything. This rules out going under the
floor as it is now inacessable.

I beleive I am going to head up into the attic and take
a look at the layout and where the walls begin and end.
I am sure I can run the speaker runs through the attic
and down the walls. The best part is that there won't
be any electrical lines in the walls I need to go into.
This house was built without any celing lights of any
kind and the electric baseboard is on another wall.

Like you said, if I can get between the vapor barrier
side of the insulation and the wall it shouldn't be to
bad. I may be able to "borrow" a fish line from one of
the network guys at work :)

I appreciate all your help!

Wow, Brett and Larry, the Home Audio Furnishings Guys. I think it's time you started a show on access cable. This is great stuff.

Meantime, Larry, what kind of problem will I run into trying to fish the same speaker cable behind a wall in a garden-home rowhouse? I know there are cinder-blocks in there (at least there should be) acting as a firewall, and they seem to be fairly close to the drywall, since trying to use anchor-bolts or butterflies often produces a botched job when the screw hits the concrete. Is there other crap in there like paper and pink? ... Mike

Mike, townhouses are usually separated, as you know, by firewalls, which, in order to be fire-rated, can't have any holes on the blocks, so penetrations for receptacle boxes are not allowed. In such cases, the options left to the builder and electrician are:

1) Use furring strips, which is 99% likely what you have, which allow about 3/4 in. of space. It is not likely that this wall is insulated, as the other side of the wall is also living space. There are boxes shallow enough to fit into a wall space this thin.

2) Go ahead and use full studs, which allow plenty of depth for standard wall boxes, but make the unit a couple of inches narrower, although I'm sure the cost is more important. It's doubtful you'll find insulation here, either.

My fiance owns a townhouse that has the first option, and the receptacle along that wall is a floor mounted, brass-plate-covered one. There is the possibility that the floor framing has gaps along the block that you might fit a wire into, between the last joist and the block. If not, you should be able to drill up or down into that space, as long as you stay within that 3/4 in. gap against the block.

You didn't mention if you want to go up or down, so I'll leave further detail for another reply.

Larry

Sorry to get off the subject but I ordered my AR9's
today! I am so stoked.. here is a picture of the cherry
version, I ordered them in black ash.



They have 2 5.25" Mag-Alloy Mid Ranges a 1" Diamond
Hardened Titanium Tweeter and 1 10" high excursion
woofer per cabinent. It says they are Bi-Amp ready.
I assume they mean that I power the Mids/Highs with
one input and the sub gets powered by another input?

Hmmmm....Larry: since there are no outlet boxes along that common wall anywhere in the house, I'm guessing furring. (Excellent explanation, BTW.... something I certainly did not know before.)

I just want to take my existing speaker wiring, which runs from one end of the room to the other, drill a hole at or near the baseboard, and fish the wire up to where my rear surround speakers hang. This will do away with the need for wire covers and certainly meets the high standards of the internationally-known WAF.

Brett: we have names for people like you: Lucky Dog comes to mind...

... Mike

Mike, read my first response in this thread for info about fishing wire vertically within a wall.

Larry

Lar: I read it earlier and that's what got me interested, in fact. This particular rowhousing was built over 30 years ago by a guy named Campeau, who eventually made enough money in new-housing construction that he decided he could buy some New York businesses, like Bloomingdales. Which almost immediately went bankrupt. He built his houses in much the same fashion: he cut corners. I'll be checking, but I have a feeling I won't find any horizontal braces behind my wall. In any case, thanks again from those of us who have always wondered how to easily fish a cable behind drywall... ... Mike

Mike......

I am a LUCKY DOG!! Mr.UPS man showed up this morning
with my AR9's and my DS787... Sure I busted a nut in
the process of carrying this stuff into the house..

The 787 weighs 40LBS and the AR9's are 60LBS each...

I threw the 787 on top of my TV and wired up the AR9's
just to listen to the stereo untill my AV rack that I
have on order gets here saturday.. What can I say?

OMG!!! The 787 is amazing and the AR9's are smooooooth
as silk and the 10's in them drive bass with more low
authority than my 15" pios did! Yeah Buddy I am like a
kid in a candy store :)

Only 60 lbs??? Try lugging my BP-2000's around. They're twice the weight!

Larry

Larry,

We won't dispute that there are heavier cabinents out
there... The bigger the cabinent the more weight. But
for as small of a footprint as the AR9's have they are
very heavy.. Wow I still can not get over the tonal
clarity of these beauts... :)

Congrats, Brett! If you're in hi-fi heaven, then you've succeeded! Enjoy!

Hey, let's have a competition! Who's speakers weigh the most per sq. in. of footprint? :-)

Larry