I talked to the chief technologist here at Onkyo Canada about the fan noise in the Onkyo TX-DS989. This has been the source of many a complaint on a number of websites. It is noticeable during quiet moments, but you can't tell at all when listening to movies or music at normal levels.

He explained that in today's A/V units of this type, if there were no fans, the receivers would require heat sinks the size of a 1950's Chevy tailfins. (Think contemporary home PCs and the fan and cooling systems required simply for the little computer chip.)

He did also say that he has come across a simple hardware fix (compared to the previous requirement to replace 38 distinct parts) from the Onkyo design team in Japan. This will only require the replacement of a single transistor, which will effectively lower the speed of the fan when it kicks in, making it much quieter.

He tells me he has two machines on test at the moment, and will let me know in a week or so if the fix is successful. If it is, he will be firing off the information to all authorized Onkyo service dealers. And he'll give me the details, too, so I can post here for all to see.

Pretty impressive: this was my first call to Service. ... Mike

Fan noise is becoming more and more of a problem. The equipment is getting so sophisticated and powerful, they all have chips that generate heat. There has been a lot of talk about the new generation of HDTV set top boxes and the noise of their fans, too.

It's this noise that has made a separate "head-end" room or audio closet an absolute must have in our new home that we're building later this year.

I thought some receivers were designed to switch the fan off (or slower) during quiet sessions. Also, some amps still manage to be designed without fans at all -- I've heard my Marantz SR-18EX has a fan somewhere, but it's not on the back and I've never heard it run (and I'm the kind of guy that demanded a new subwoofer amp after the transformer hummed a bit louder than I liked).

I hate to tell you - but that guy from Onkyo is trying to save face. There are current examples of receivers that don't use fans and put out ample power. My Denon 3801 doesn't have a fan, yet puts outs out 92W X 5 (as tested by Sound & Vision). The 3300 it replaced put out less, overheated, and had a noisy fan. The 3801 runs cooler, puts out more power, and is all done with natural heat convection cooling. What he should have said is that it is very hard and expensive to design a receiver without a noisy cooling fan. Instead, they chose to go the easy route and use a fan.

I am in on way dissing Onkyo, especially your receiver. They make awesome products, and almost all the manufacturers (including Denon) do this with fans. Just needed to let you know that it is not, and should not be acceptable for a company to put a noisy fan in a receiver when they can do it another way.

Read this article - they shed some light on this.

[Link: smr-home-theatre.org]

Bryan

92W x 5 is 460W. 130W x 7 in the Onkyo is 910W. 450W difference in essentially the same size box. I think it's mostly a design choice, not saving face. If there's a problem, I would blame it on bad fan choice, not the fact that there is a fan.

Denon's 5800 has a fan. 170W x 7.

If you want truly quiet, cool power try the Sunfire. Wow.

Bryan: I can't really disagree with you on that, because of course I have no way of knowing, really. However, the guy I talked to is not really employed by Onkyo. He is rather one of the lead technicians at a Canadian company that distributes Onkyo, along with several other brands. To that end, they are an authorized Onkyo service group, as well.

But Spiky actually beat me to the punch here. Thanks, Spiky. Over twice the power in the same size box. If anyone has ever stuck their hand behind their own refrigerator, you know the kind of heat dispersal that's required when you don't have a fan... .. Mike

Well - if you want to go by manufacturs specs, then my Denon is actually 105 X 7, which is 735W. I do agree the Onkyo is pushing more power, and therefore more heat, I was just saying that a heatsink wouldn't have to be as large as that guy made it sound - because we are talking less than 200W of difference between yours and mine.

Also, don't forget that you will never get your Onkyo (or me my Denon) to full power at all channels at the same time. In most listening - we are only using a few watts, so the power difference isn't really that big after all. It is those peaks that your Onkyo will go above and beyond my Denon. At most listening, my Denon barely gets warm - even after some loud listening - it is not hot at all.

And Spiky, like I said, all manufacturers put fans in. I wouldn't buy a receiver with one because of the noise problem. I have just heard too many complaints from people with fans in their receivers.

I just want to make it clear that I wasn't dissing anyones equipment - it's just a personal choice for me on the fans.

All of the eqipment listed here is top notch, so I am not saying mine is better or anything like that. Just saying that there are better ways of cooling a receiver than with a fan.

Bryan

Also forgot to add that I got the 92 X 5 as the actual watts that my receiver put out with all channels driven. It is in Sound & Vision. See the link below - this guy has taken all of the issues of S & V and made a spreadsheet of all the specs. Your Onkyo got 126W X 5 (not bad!). Thought you guys might find this useful.

[Link: geocities.com]

Bryan: Are you SURE that your 3801 has no fan? I know the heat sinks are designed differently than my 3300, but the fan housing is in the exact place that it is on my 3300. Because of the better heat sink design, your fan may not have turned on due to wide open convection cooling; or only turned on low speed; plus it does have the "smarts" to shut off during quiet passages.

I may be wrong, but I do think your 3801 has a 2 speed fan.

... Greg

So, does anyone know if capacitors put out heat? I'm pretty sure they do, as I've had to have more than a couple replaced on various devices, due to dry-out over the years. The two caps in the Onkyo are the size of coke cans. ... Mike

Greg - no - it does not have a fan- I know this for sure.

Bryan

Mike - I think that they do - and I am sure in your Onkyo that they are huge - 126 X 5 with all channels driven hard is pretty damn impressive - and requires a huge power supply and some huge caps. How much does that thing weigh?

Bryan

Let me rephrase my response to Greg - I shouldn't say that I am sure - because there is no documentation on this. But I thought I remember the sales guy telling me no fan, and when I looked inside my receiver - I don't see a fan anywhere. So it is entirely possible that there is a fan hidden in there somewhere that I can not see or hear, and that no one knows exists. :)

I knew you had the 3801, and liked your 3300 better - do you remember looking in there and seeing a fan? Because I am pretty sure that there isn't one in there. And if there is - then I will have to say that I am dissapointed that it is in there - because I had a chance to buy the 3300 at a big discount, but chose the 3801 because I was under the impression that there was no fan or heat problems, and had all the newest surround modes. But still, I am a happy owner none-the-less.

Bryan

Bryan-48.5# for the 989. I think yours is around 35#?

The guy was, of course, exaggerating about the heat sinks.

But if you want capabilities like the Sunfire puts out in amps powered in the traditional way, look at Krell or Proceed. They have GIANT heat sinks, a monoblock being maybe 100#.

Receiver amps are always a step back compared to serious amps. Even in these very good companies.

Spiky - I think it is like 37.5 pounds - but I can't remember for sure. I just know that it is pretty heavy. I think the 5800 is something like 60+ lbs. I have read some reviews on audioreview that the 3801 DOESN'T have fans, and that is also why they bought it - 'cause they didn't want a noisy fan problem.

The 3300 weighed like 31 lbs, and I think that the 3801 is heavier because of the bigger heat sinks (among other things - bigger power supply, a few more channels of amplification), so I am pretty sure that they wouldn't increase the heatsink just to put a fan in there as well. They got hammered so much for the fan noise and the over heating, that I think they learned their lesson.

Bryan