Direct TV is cramming more channels into the same bandwidth. Each channel is getting less bandwidth.
Jan I. in Dallas,TX

Direct TV is cramming more channels into the same bandwidth. Each channel is getting less bandwidth.

"More" compared to what? Compared to what they were doing in the past? Definitely. The advent of local channel retransmission for the major markets has crowded things big time. The compression algorithms have been optimized to where the picture has improved considerably compared to what it was maybe a year ago (remember all the freeze frames? [shudder]) but it still is not as good as it was before they started adding all those locals. When I got my system in 1997 they were reported to be running about 7 channels per transponder, now it's more like 10.

Compared to other providers? There I'm not so sure. The experts over at dbsforums seem to indicate both DirecTV and Dish are running at the same 10 channels per transponder ratio.

Both providers are working on launching "spot beam" satellites over the next year or so. This would permit beaming local channels to restricted local regions, allowing the same frequencies to be used for different parts of the country. This SHOULD help the bandwidth crowding and allow greater bandwidth allocation to each channel, if they choose to use it this way. They also might choose to use this new-found bandwidth for extra channels.

I hate to say this but:

YOU ALL NEED TO GET A LIVE. IF YOU WANT THE BEST PICTURE THEN GO OUT SIDE AND LIVE. I love tv and a good picture but dam, by DVD'd if you want the best. dish and dtv are better than most cable systems and are much better than rabbit ears.

sorry to any and all who i may have offended but i had to say it

Well, Radical_fish may have a point, but for our sake lets hope when he goes outside, he's on his way to school to attend a grammer and spelling class. Just for your info fish, its LIFE, not live, and DAMN, not dam. Oh yeah.. and I guarantee you HDTV in 1080i is better than your 480i DVD. (I dont have a 480p DVD player so I cant compare it against a HDTV 1080i)

One more thing.... well, maybe 2...
It's BUY not "by" a DVD player.
And I never heard of DVD'd. Unless you are quoting someone who was recently DVD'd. Meaning: "A person who has been genetically transfered to DVD.
And I'm quite sure everyone who is posting on this forum already has a DVD player.

I just had to say that!

JOE

DirecTV uses a proprietary compression scheme that is very similar to MPEG2 as pointed out by a number of people on this thread. EchoStar (Dish Network), on the other hand, is actually fully compliant with the European DVB-S standard that stipulates MPEG2 as part of the standard. This is why you see the DVB (Digital Video Broadcasting) logo on their boxes. This is part of a collection of standards DVB-S (satellite), DVB-C (Cable) and DVB-T (terrestrial).

From a historical standpoint, Hughes was well into the development of the DSS system a year or two prior to the completion of the DVB standards work. When EchoStar started their development the DVB-S standard had solidified and parts were available from several manufacturers including ComStream for whom I worked at the time. ComStream made the receivers for both systems initially.

Unfortunately, it is very difficult for Hughes to convert over. The DVB-S / MPEG2 standard calls out a frame structure that consists of 188 payload bytes, followed by 16 parity bytes for a total frame length of 208 bytes. DSS (DirecTV) uses a different structure consisting of 130 bytes of payload and 16 bytes of parity for a total frame size of 146 bytes. To change from one to the other requires a hardware change in the early boxes, which would require that DirecTV replace some 3 million boxes. In addition, they would need to replace all of the uplink modulators in their head end facility, which would require a large investment as well as system downtime.

From what david says, this hardware limitation is going to haunt DirecTV for a long time to come. Still looks to me the Dish is the way to go....

JO

JO --

I really didn't mean to give the impression that this was a problem. I just wanted to point out that DirecTV could not just do a simple SW upgrade and convert to the MPEG2 "standard". The compression methodology used in both cases is very similar and (I suspect) will produce similar results given the same data rate. The differences that people see are probably due more to the degree of compression chosen than the technology employed to do it.

I think these are both good services and both systems are capable of producing an excellent picture if they want to. At work we have both systems running in the labs and they both work quite nicely.

I would make the choice based on content and which service you like better.

David - thanks for filling in some of the technical blanks. I'm glad to hear some of what I have been told being supported.

JO - It's fine that you are such a Dish fan. Nothing wrong with that. I like my DirecTV system too, but I'm not fanatical about it. Just happens, at the time I got into this my wife insisted that we had to have American Movie Classics and in mid-1997 Dish didn't carry it (they do now, of course), so my choice was made for me. People choosing their system should make their choice based on valid reasons -- strict MPEG 2.0 compliance or lack thereof is not one of them.

A wise old associate of mine had a favorite saying: "A difference is only a difference if it MAKES a difference." This MPEG 2.0 difference is no more important than the color of the power cord.

Dish or DirecTV both have their strong points. As long as it is not cable:).... Nope, won't even go there...

Personally i think that either of the dss systems beats anything by cable.

For that matter when i was a child i only got to watch tv every other weekend. We had three channels we could pick up with an open air antenna. So my sister and i had to switch turns each weekend turning the antenna so the rest of the family could watch tv. ;)

I've looked and looked, and can't find any deterioration in picture quality. It just isn't there. (I have subscribed to DirecTV for six years now). You do see major differences between stations, however. Fox Movie Channel is blurry, VHS resolution at best. TCM is gorgeous, AMC almost as good. STARZ is great, even with DD transmission. And of course PPV is always best.

I have noticed lately (last 3 months) that there is a higher than normal gosting issue going on some of the channels. The biggest culprits are the east coast national feeds of CBS and NBC. Anyone else seen this?

I am still seeing degraded performance. The ghosting is the worst on channels like a&e and fx. The local channels dont fair much better.

I'm using an RCA DTC100 with a large rear-projection set and my East Coast feeds have looked awful in recent weeks. They used to be just fine. I'm not sure exactly when the change occurred, but I believe it was sometime in Spring 2001. Now CBS/FOX/NBC/ABC are all soft, almost blurry at times. I've complained to DirecTV but have gotten no satisfaction to date.