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HD DVR
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Post 1 made on Tuesday November 22, 2005 at 07:42
rknecht
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I am thinking of buying a HD DVR and I have a question. The DVR needs 2 Sat feeds for its 2 tuners. Can I split the existing sat feed at the back of the reciever? The reason I am asking, is that when I originally ran the coax from the dish to the boxes, the walls were opened up. Now, years later, I don't feel like cutting them open again. I have a triple LNB dish on the roof. I am planning on splitting my attic antennas too. Can this be done? Do I need a multi switcher? Thanks for the help!
OP | Post 2 made on Tuesday November 22, 2005 at 08:02
rknecht
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I did a quick online search. Can I use a Terk BMS-34 Multiswitch? It looks like it will also allow me to use my off air antenna as well.
Post 3 made on Tuesday November 22, 2005 at 10:07
Spiky
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Terk is over priced. If you can find their stuff for comparable prices to other companies, they are fine. But don't pay more. The only switches that really stand out and you MIGHT want to pay more for are made by Spaun. The BMS-34 is not adequate for an HD setup with an oval dish. You need a 4 or 5 input multiswitch.

You cannot split the sat feed except with an appropriate multiswitch. This can be wherever you want it, closer to the dish or closer to your receiver, but you will need all 4 lines from the dish run all the way to the multiswitch to get the HD channels from DirecTV.

However, if the DVR is the only sat box in the house, you don't need a switch at all. Then you just need 2 lines from the dish all the way to the DVR. Since the dish has 4 outputs, you can run up to 4 receivers or 2 DVRs or whatever combination without a multiswitch.
Post 4 made on Tuesday November 22, 2005 at 10:12
elnickster
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If you have the DirecTV Phase III triple-lnb dish on the roof, it has an onboard multiswitch with four outputs. All four outputs of the onboard switch need to be connected to the four inputs on the indoor multiswitch. The Terk BMS-34 is not suitable for you, you need a 5x8, such as the Terk BMS-58. The eight outputs of the switch can then feed up to eight tuners, and yes, the fifth input on the switch is for your OTA antenna.

Good luck,
Nickster
Post 5 made on Tuesday November 22, 2005 at 16:59
FreddyFreeloader
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Nope. You need at least two lines going to the spot. I recommend THREE. (Dont forget your OTA HD reception.) Don't run your off air antenna through the multiswitch if you get one, it's "nothing but trouble." Dedicate a line for it and salvage signal strength. One line for OTA, one line for sat 1, and one line for sat 2. Three total.
Post 6 made on Tuesday November 22, 2005 at 18:28
bcf1963
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On November 22, 2005 at 16:59, FreddyFreeloader said...
Don't run your off air antenna
through the multiswitch if you get one, it's "nothing
but trouble." Dedicate a line for it and salvage
signal strength.

Please enlighten us... what about using the multiswitch to combine antenna with the sat poses a problem?

I've done this, but use a good quality preamp at the antenna to ensure adequate signal strength from the antenna into the multiswitch. Of course you're also going to need diplexers, with one leg that passes DC. The leg that passes DC goes to the sat input of the sat reciever, the DC blocking leg goes to the antenna input of the sat receiver.
Post 7 made on Wednesday November 23, 2005 at 13:48
FreddyFreeloader
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On November 22, 2005 at 18:28, bcf1963 said...
Please enlighten us... what about using the multiswitch
to combine antenna with the sat poses a problem?


For one TV or receiver? Just seems like alot of trouble and alot of connections, increasing your chances of losing a channel.

If your talking about needing antenna for all 8, 12, or 16 lines hooked to the multiswitch, give it a shot!

In prewiring a home, why not run two coaxes to each TV and play it safe? I have just spent too many afternoons fighting to get off-air DTV channels when amps, diplexers, and 5X switches are involved.

DTV reception varies from house to house and some can get away with using antenna with multiswitches, and some can't. In general I just get better results keeping switchers out of my antenna signal.
Post 8 made on Thursday November 24, 2005 at 01:16
bcf1963
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On November 23, 2005 at 13:48, FreddyFreeloader said...
For one TV or receiver?

If you read his question, he discusses splitting the attic antenna. This tells me that using a multiswitch to distribute the OTA will simplify wiring.

Just seems like alot
of trouble and alot of connections, increasing
your chances of losing a channel.

So what is the "alot of trouble" part? In houses where two cables have been run from the wiring closet to each TV location, it's a lot more trouble to run the third coax for OTA!

Also, how does the "alot of connections" increase the chance for losing a channel. My experience has been that by amplifying the OTA antenna using a mast or attic mounted preamp, and adjusting signal strength so it is adequate but not overdriven at the multiswitch, results in plenty of signal strength at the receivers, even once the diplexers are used.

If you don't have adequate signal strength at the multiswitch, the OTA amp in the multiswitch will not be able to overcome the noise floor, and you'll get a poor signal. But this will occur regardless of the number of connections in the system, even if the coax is run directly to only one location.

If your talking about needing antenna for all
8, 12, or 16 lines hooked to the multiswitch,
give it a shot!

In prewiring a home, why not run two coaxes to
each TV and play it safe?

This would not be adequate for what you are proposing! You are telling him he needs three coax to each TV. Two for the HD-DVR, and one for OTA antenna.

I have just spent too
many afternoons fighting to get off-air DTV channels
when amps, diplexers, and 5X switches are involved.

Perhaps an investment in a signal strength meter would be in order. It's a good investment for a professional working on RF distribution.

My experience has been that without the meter, it's just a lot of trial and error. The cause of "too many afternoon fighting to get off-air DTV channels" is really lack of good tools.

DTV reception varies from house to house and some
can get away with using antenna with multiswitches,
and some can't. In general I just get better
results keeping switchers out of my antenna signal.

You have yet to explain how not using the multiswitch makes the OTA signal at the TV stronger. If you can have enough signal at the end of a coax to drive a single tuner, a good preamp properly adjusted, and a multiswitch will also get the signal there.

I hear way too much folklore, and supposed facts about RF transmission systems and coax on this site. They seem to evolve because someone hooked something up once a certain way, and had problems. This is usually accompanied with them not really understanding why they were having the problems.

Not trying to flame you. I'm only trying to get you to walk through the issues in your head. If you understand the concepts of transmission lines, I think once you try to explain why not using the diplexer is better, you'll discover there is no underlying science to back this up.
Post 9 made on Sunday November 27, 2005 at 11:03
FreddyFreeloader
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On November 24, 2005 at 01:16, bcf1963 said...
| Perhaps an investment in a signal strength meter
would be in order. It's a good investment for
a professional working on RF distribution.

That's why I own one. I have spent many afternoons trying to use it, designing the system the way you talk about, having the math just so, the way you describe.
In PRINCIPLE it should work, the multiswitch, the diplexers, etc.

The problem is that it isn't quite so "cut and dry."
Just because my meter says I have the right signal quality doesn't mean the channel actually works for me. (Even though I have used your method, again, with the meter.)
Amazingly, however, when I run a dedicated lead and bypass your multiswitch and diplexers, some channels show more signal on the onboard meter, AND I receive channels I didn't receive before.
Post 10 made on Sunday December 4, 2005 at 23:53
Caffeinated
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Nobody answered his question .

As far as I know only Dish network's Dish Pro plus system w/ a seperator will power two tuners off one RG-6 (at the sat box)

Does D-TV have anything like this? If so I haven't seen it yet.
Post 11 made on Monday December 5, 2005 at 12:04
Spiky
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I answered the question. So did Freddie, before getting into an argument. So did Nickster. We said....no.

However, D* can use a stacker to run more on one line. Not cheap like a multiswitch. Usually not used for a single-family home, but possible. (hence the "no" above)
Post 12 made on Friday December 9, 2005 at 11:51
Caffeinated
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Well you guys answered my question... that apparently D-tv doesn't have the technology to run 2 tuners off one RG6.
Post 13 made on Friday December 9, 2005 at 17:32
Larry Fine
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Not if you want even and odd transponders at the same time.
Post 14 made on Monday December 12, 2005 at 16:44
Ernie Bornn-Gilman
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On December 9, 2005 at 17:32, Larry Fine said...
Not if you want even and odd transponders at the
same time.

Not exactly....

On December 5, 2005 at 12:04, Spiky said...
However, D* can use a stacker to run more on one
line. Not cheap like a multiswitch. Usually not
used for a single-family home, but possible. (hence
the "no" above)

But a stacker makes it possible to run both polarities on one cable, so it is good for the non-HD situation where only one LNB is needed (and this is not even true for local stations in some markets).

Does DirecTV have a stacker approach that will handle HD, where the 101 satellite's signals would be stacked to one line, the 110/119 signals would be stacked to another, and then a device that I have never heard of having been made would be able instruct the ? ? ? just which signals to send down?

I think the answer is no, not for HD. Yes, for non-HD, if there are no channels you need from 110 or 119 (Sats C and B, respectively).
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 15 made on Monday December 12, 2005 at 20:28
edmund
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See this thread, for a fully stacked phase III dish.


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