Instead of insulting us in this forum from your alter of RF expertise, how about sharing with us some facts as to why you believe that the TSU 7000 will control a Lutron Radio RA system using only it's internal RF transmitter. This forum is for the exchange of useful information based on facts and real world experiences by the equipment users. I own a TSU 7000 and I have Radio RA installed in my home. I OFFER MY HOME AS A TEST CASE. Prove to us that it will work and I will be the first to admit that I am wrong. The points that I have been making are based on experience from equipment ownership and many years of working in the field of home system integration. I have been a pronto owner since day one with the TSU 1000, I am a Crestron programmer and I am certified as an installer and programmer of Lutron lighting control systems. Show us with facts that the communication language protocol of the TSU 7000 and the Radio RA system are indeed compatable. The fact is that the TSU 7000 in it's current configuration CANNOT directly learn RF commands from other RF devices. Furthermore there is no current way in Prontoproedit NG to manipulate the protocol and language of the TSU 7000's RF transmitter. The only fact that you have provided is that both systems use the same 418mhz frequency, well so does nearly every other device that the FCC classifies as a periodic transmitter. Instead of directly quoting and insulting me on my statement of not trying to start arguments, give the forum facts to back up your expertise. Until now I have respected your opinions and have not insulted you, I have only aired the challenges, difficulties and limitations of making these two systems communicate with each other, and have provided proven reasons based on the limitations of the programming software that this at this time probably won't work. I challenge you to prove to the forum using facts that the current programming software will support the learning, manipulation and transmission of RF codes for the purpose of controlling RF devices not made by Phillips. Use your expertise to teach and share information with others of this forum so that we may better understand and enjoy our systems. If you can't do that then your opinions and expertise are of no use to us.

I may be wrong and I don't want to speak for Dave but I think the software he is developing will create the codes that the pronto can transmit and the Radio RA will understand.

Jon

You will find several messages from people in this and other forums who are using codes generated by a free software app I wrote, named CodeGen™, to directly control RF devices using their Prontos. You can find CodeGen™ at [Link: mbx-usa.com].

Most users of CodeGen™ RF codes are outside of North America where the Prontos send 433.92MHz. They control things like X-10 (via RF), Elro AB600 RF controlled lights/appliances, Philips Power Control System RF modules for lights and appliances, and others. There are few things which use the same 418MHz frequency used by North American Prontos but I would think that some people might be interested in controlling their Lutron and Crestron systems using their Pronto without needing a $600 IR adapter.

I use a TS1000 modified to send 310MHz RF to control my X-10. I have purchased a TSU3000 in order to investigate it's RF. I have also purchased an ATI RemoteWonder and hope to see whether it can be retuned to 418MHz (from 433.92MHz) so it can be controlled by North American 418MHz NGs. Since it's made by X-10 and I have schematics of other X-10 RF receivers, I'm reasonably confident that I can retune it and write instructions so that others can do the same.

I have written a much more sophisticated application called CodeGenPro™. It can generate billions of IR and RF codes, can learn IR and RF codes (with simple hardware that costs less than $30), and includes more RF codes (e.g. ATI Remote Wonder, X-10 MouseRemote). It will not be free but I hope the price can be kept under $15. It should be released next week. I'm currently adding MX-500 support and awaiting a Somfy remote that someone is sending so I can capture and analyze the codes. I have offered free advance copies of the software to a couple of individuals in Europe if they will capture RF codes from a Somfy remote and a Viper ceiling fan RF remote. If the RadioRA and Crestron codes look useful, I'll include them. If not, anyone who has either system can capture the codes using the software and specified hardware. The software includes provisions for saving captured codes to files using a proprietary format. These files can be shared with others so not everybody will need RF capture hardware.

You will not find a single instance where I said a Pronto could learn RF. You will find several instances where I've told people that no Pronto can learn RF. But learning RF codes is straightforward and simple using very inexpensive hardware. Ask Bomber Jim - I sent him some hardware more than a year ago so he could capture the RF codes sent by his Marantz. You'll see some screenshots showing the RF preamble sent to the RX77 (or RFX6000) that came from the file he sent me.

The FCC allows unlicensed low power transmitters to use frequencies from about 300MHz-1GHz, plus some lower and higher frequency bands. Prontos are NOT classified as "periodic" transmitters. Periodic transmitters are things which transmit periodically and automatically without a human finger on the button. Periodic transmitters that send data are restricted to very, very low power levels - much lower than for remote controls like the Pronto. Transmitters like alarm sensors are allowed to send periodic "all's well" type of data messages.

Information is information, whether transmitted by IR, RF, morse code, signal flags, signal lamps, jungle drums, alpine horns, or puffs of smoke. With ASK, it's only a sequence of pulses and spaces.The Pronto is very malleable. It can transmit almost any ASK (i.e. AM) protocol. The only limit is on the total length of a transmission or total number of transitions and even that is not likely to be a limiting factor. I have absolutely no idea of the size of Lutron's "housecode" (that's why I asked for someone to capture some codes) but it can be learned and retransmitted as easily as any other sequence of pulses and spaces. I probably will not attempt to publish the "housecode" info as that could cause problems between neighbors. I also do not publish arm/disarm codes for RF alarm systems - many of which are easily disarmed.

I have designed a low cost, generic RF receiver module that can be configured to receive RF codes from various systems and output them as baseband,as TW523 commands or as RS232/RS485 for monitoring RF controlled lighting systems (e.g. GE SmartHome) or security systems.

I did not choose the "RF Expert" tag - Daniel apparently gave that to me when he changed to the new forums. It's the Status field of my Profile. If I could change it, I would.

If you would like to learn something about RF, read the application notes at [Link: mbx-usa.com]. I'm not going to waste my time aguing with the clueless. You can also find the FCC Part 15 Rules online but they are a very difficult read.

I have heard from an installer who has offered to capture some RadioRA codes and I think I may have someone who can capture some Crestron codes.

they just finshed building my home and i have radio ra installed. i would love to help anyway i can. would love to control the lights with my 7000

It's sure to be a couple of weeks. I'll send the installerwho has offered to help some hardware in a few days. He'll have to schedule a visit with his client and then send me the results.

When I know one way or the other, I'll report it here.

Eigeny Oulianov has already posted the Crestron RF codes to the Files area.
[Link: remotecentral.com]

That just leaves RadioRA and I already have a volunteer who will capture some of those codes.

Dave, will the hex generated from codegenpro work with HTM MX800 & MX3000.

I was looking into this over the weekend.

I'm really not even a little bit familiar with the details of the various MX-nnn remotes but it looks like the MX-3000 can import CCF hex and the MX-300 & MX-500 can use CCF by way of CCF2MX software and the IRClone hardware. I don't know about those in between. I asked if there was interest in the HTM forum but only got one non-responsive reply.

To be specific, the answer to your question is, "Only if there's a way to utilize CCF either directly or through conversion." If there's interest, I'll look at it later.

Dave;

Dumb question, but how do you capture the RF codes? Perhaps I can help you get those Somfy codes for their RF motors/controls.

It's not a dumb question at all.

You need a small RF receiver module of the proper frequency and a PC w/soundcard or a laptop with Line-In. I describe the circuit in the CodeGenPro™ manual - p8. I also describe the procedure at [Link: mbx-usa.com].

However, I found one Somfy page on the web that said their Telis remotes use rolling codes. It will do no good to capture those as they change to an entirely different code with each button press.

I think the codes should work. I have only done a few MX remotes but there is an explorer window which allows you to open CCFs (I don't think it will do .pcfs). Once the .ccf is open you can copy the hex code from there. So basically you would create the codes with Daves software then put them into a ccf using Pronto Edit 4 then open that in the MX software.

Or the software Dave discussed (CCF2MX software and the IRClone hardware) would probably work - I've never used them.

I tried to paste the hex(HamptonBay Fan), into a ccf then input it into my MX3000 using the universal browser w/no luck. Maybe I'm missing something.

Hey Dave,

In our last email, you asked if I could learn the IR codes from my Lutron Spacer Remote.

I have spent some time this evening learning. Results were sporadic but I re-did a few times to see if I could get similar results per key.

I have posted here for your info and have sent you an email as well. Let me know if you have any success. I can do additional "learns" if needed.

Regards....Dave D'Arche

UP
0000 0066 0000 0006 0333 0111 005C 0111 005C 01C7 005C 0111 005C 0111 005C 020B

Down
0000 0067 0000 0006 032A 010E 005B 010E 005B 01C2 005B 0168 005B 005B 005B 0249

Scene 1
0000 0066 0000 0007 0333 0111 005C 0111 005C 005C 016C 005C 005C 0111 0111 0072 005C 019A

Scene 2
0000 0066 0000 0007 0333 0111 005C 0111 005C 005C 016C 005C 005C 00B9 005C 00B9 005C 0266

Scene 3
0000 0066 0000 0008 0333 0111 005C 0111 005C 005C 016C 005C 005C 00B7 005C 005C 005C 005C 00B7 019A

Scene 4
0000 0066 0003 0007 0333 0111 005C 0111 005C 0072 016C 005C 005C 005C 0111 0111 005C 019A 0333 0111 005C 0111 005C 005B

All On and All Off (appear to be a toggle)
0000 0066 0000 0007 0333 0111 005C 0111 005C 005C 016C 005C 005C 0111 005C 00B8 005C 020B

I have tried the RF code CCF provided in the thread above with my TSU 7000 and a Crestron MC2W processor with RF gateway. Initially it looks like it works well. The person obviously did alot of work to produce this and I thank him. I will do a complete program for my home and report back on the performance parameters such as useful range, etc. I honestly would like to see if the Radio RA code capturing will work. In the above responses I never said that anyone was wrong, I was only questioning what may be the obstacles to success and those questions must have been taken personally. I never meant any offense, It is my nature as an engineer to think of all the things than can go wrong and provide solutions for success. If Mr Houston would like for me to loan some devices for this experiment I will supply them as long as they get returned.

Mr. Sinclair,

Eigeny did all that work more than a year ago after I told him he could use the TSU3000 instead of the far more expensive rebranded TSU6000 that Crestron sells. The Crestron remote is very costly here but is even more costly in Moscow. Eigeny did not capture the codes but reverse engineered the Crestron protocol. Eigeny's degree is in Physics so he is probably more open minded than if he were an engineer. ;)

I already have an installer who has volunteered to capture some RadioRA codes. The hardware he needs is in the mail. It probably will be a couple of weeks before I get any feedback from him.

Unless Lutron uses FSK or rolling codes, there is no reason why it will not work just as well as the Crestron RF codes. If Lutron only uses a few housecodes, I'll incorporate them in CodeGenPro™. If they use a large number, this becomes impractical so they will need to be learned for each house. I never said differently. I merely asked for someone to capture the codes. The hardware needed for code capture is inexpensive. The soundcard has a DSP and you can sample .WAV files at 48kbps which is more than adequate given that the baseband signals are in the 1kHz-2kHz range.

Your insults were indeed taken personally. As an engineer you should have realized that what I was saying was true. I recommend that you watch your local cable Sports channel. When they report that the ice skating venue for the Winter Olympics is the River Styx, you can contact me and I'll consider helping you.

Or you can wait a few days and buy CodeGenPro™ for $15, build your own hardware for capture (or wait a few weeks and buy a prebuilt board with sockets for the RF receiver) and capture the codes yourself - $10 if you DIY, about $30 if you opt for the board.

I've been retired for 20+ years, am disabled from a spinal cord injury and a failing ticker. I'm not eager to wire a bunch of RadioRA modules for testing, so I'll have to decline your offer.