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Question about makehex and irpanels
This thread has 9 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Tuesday February 10, 2004 at 16:49
mikehifi
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2004
16
just downloaded these programs and i'm not sure how to use them. makehex readme says
"
2) Edit that .IRP file with a text editor. MAKEHEX takes all its input from
the .IRP file including the device number and the range of function numbers.
You should change the "Device=" and "Function=" lines in the .IRP file to
specify the IR commands you want. You may want to change other values in
the .IRP file."

how do i get this info to start with? ie device code etc? any input would be helpful!

thanks in advance!
mike
Post 2 made on Tuesday February 10, 2004 at 18:32
johnsfine
IR Expert
Joined:
Posts:
September 2002
5,159
The most common source of that information is learned signals from the same device. (Assuming your intended use of Irpanels is to test all the command numbers to see if there are any discrete or other interesting extra functions).

The best way to get protocol name and device numbers from learned signals is with DecodeCCF.exe and DecodeIR.dll. Both of those are available from the Yahoo JP1 group, in the directories
[Link: groups.yahoo.com]
and
[Link: groups.yahoo.com]

You need to join the Yahoo JP1 group to download those, but joining is free of cost or consequence (it no longer generates a lot of email, even if you forget to select "no email" when joining).

DecodeCCF decodes the learned signals in a CCF file. You can also decode individual signals from Pronto Hex, using the JP1 version of the IrTool program (from the same directories above). IrTool only understands the common format of Pronto hex, while DecodeCCF understands every format used in any CCF file I've ever downloaded. But the common form is so much more common that likely IrTool will decode what you need decoded.

Either way, the decodes give you protocol name (for selecting the right .irp file) and device number and if necessary subdevice number.

I emailed a new MakeHex yesterday for posting in the utilities folder here at RC. But it isn't there yet. If you have trouble, tell me what protocols you need (or post Pronto Hex here) and I'll provide help and/or email a new MakeHex.
Post 3 made on Tuesday February 10, 2004 at 19:37
Lyndel McGee
RC Moderator
Joined:
Posts:
August 2001
13,006
John,

Can you email me the new MakeHex zip to my address on profile. I'd love it if this version generated a CSF file that could be compiled by CCFTools. If not, I make do using VisualStudio to cut and paste into my own CSFs.

Thanks,
Lyndel
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester
Post 4 made on Tuesday February 10, 2004 at 20:08
johnsfine
IR Expert
Joined:
Posts:
September 2002
5,159
I emailed it. If there are any particular protocols you want added, just ask. I can create new .IRP files quickly, but this version I focussed on changing the program to make the IRP syntax more flexible, rather than on adding protocols. (I also made the ReadMe more informative).

I think making a CSF file would be a large amount more work (I'd need to relearn the syntax of CSF files, which I haven't looked at for years). Why is CSF better than using IrPanels to create a CCF file?


Post 5 made on Tuesday February 10, 2004 at 23:14
Lyndel McGee
RC Moderator
Joined:
Posts:
August 2001
13,006
IRPanels is fine. Pardon the pun. I just had to download it. FYI, I used MS VC++ editor with a quick-macro to fill out all 128 functions for each device as I have a quick and dirty empty Sony CSF with functions and no graphics. IRPanels generates graphics but I'm sure I can change this by editing the Master CCF.

Thanks again for the file. It opened my eyes on the Sony Device.Subdevice code.
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester
OP | Post 6 made on Thursday February 12, 2004 at 10:05
mikehifi
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2004
16
thank you very much! one more qustion: if the ccf that these programs create doesn't contain a certain code (such as discreet code for component video input) does that mean the manufacturer didn't write that function into the program for the device? that it doesn't exist? thanks again!
............mike
Post 7 made on Thursday February 12, 2004 at 10:36
Lyndel McGee
RC Moderator
Joined:
Posts:
August 2001
13,006
If you have the correct device number and generate all functions 0-127 or 0-255 and you can't find a code, this means that either the code does not exist or you have the incorrect device number.

I say incorrect device number because Sony DVD Jukeboxes use a device + sub-device encoded as 13 bits to specify both DVD and Folder Explorer functions.

When these 13 bits are put together, they generate 2 distinct Device Numbers.

The new version of Makehex that John shipped supports the device + sub-device format and does not force you to do the calculation yourself.

There's a thread describing TOAD and list of TOAD devices somewhere on this site. I forget what TOAD stands for something like Toggle-Only XXX Device. This acronym was coined by Dale Crawford.

Best of Luck,
Lyndel
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester
Post 8 made on Thursday February 12, 2004 at 10:58
johnsfine
IR Expert
Joined:
Posts:
September 2002
5,159
On 02/12/04 10:05, mikehifi said...
if the
ccf that these programs create doesn't contain
a certain code (such as discreet code for component
video input) does that mean the manufacturer didn't
write that function into the program for the device?
that it doesn't exist?

That's usually a hard question and the answer often depends on the brand. Examples:

Sony (as Lyndel mentioned) often scatters funtions around to different device numbers and sometimes has discrete codes on little used device numbers, so scanning all OBCs for all device/subdevice numbers from any learned signals isn't enough to find all the discretes.

Panasonic usually puts a few obscure functions in a different subdevice number from the rest of the functions. With 256 functions per subdevice, and multiple device modes (affecting whether a given function has visible effect) an effective search is nearly impossible. So very few non obvious discretes have been found, but that doesn't tell us whether they exist.

Marantz usually puts the discrete functions in an RC5x signal related to the RC5 toggle signal (so searching all OBCs of the RC5 device would miss all the discretes, but knowing Marantz's general pattern makes finding their discretes pretty easy).

RCA puts most discretes on a different device number than the main set of functions, but they only have 16 device numbers and they use OBCs very consistently, so their discretes are easy to find.

By contrast, many brands such as Toshiba seem to put everything together on one device number, so the set of possible commands is easy to search (but most Toshiba devices have no discretes).

OP | Post 9 made on Thursday February 12, 2004 at 13:02
mikehifi
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2004
16
why oh why isn't there a "standard" that all manufacturers adhere to? don't they realize that it could affect which brands/devices c-tailers decide to sell? For example, i have discreet component codes for panasonic, but i can't seem to find one for sharp! so ask me which on i'll favor when a client asks which to buy? obviously i'll go with panasonic because i know that i can program their $1000.00 remote in less time because i won't need to create and test a macro to get the inputI want!! it just seems more complicated than it needs to be!
maybe i'm just not smart enough for this. anyone know if hardees is looking for a burger-flipper?
.....mike
Post 10 made on Thursday February 12, 2004 at 17:29
Lyndel McGee
RC Moderator
Joined:
Posts:
August 2001
13,006
Manufacturers do know. They've been taunted by many, many pronto users.

Sony is one company that's caught alot of flack and only recently responded to the folks who had DVD collections of more than 300 discs.

Yamaha is one of the best companies to support discretes. If I had to buy a mid-range receiver these days, It'd be a Yamaha.

However, if you are a manufacturer building TVs that will sell for $150.00 @ WalMart, do you expect that the consume who is purchasing the TV will be purchasing a remote that may cost 6 times as much?

Cost benefit analysis says don't do it.

What most of these manufacturers are waiting for (or dreading) is convergence. It won't be long before your DVD, Video, Audio, is all controlled from a PC.

When convergence happens, there will still be TVs but the medium-high end market for TVs will begin to dry up. Consider what DLP is doing to the market now.

Today, You can buy displays that are effectively computer monitors but also function as TVs. When this transition fully occurs, the only device you want to ensure has discretes will be the PC.


With the advent of Girder and other PC packages, you can have the best of the new world today. You just have to go with a water-cooled PC or an ultra quiet fan/heat-sink combo.

FYI, I spent the last year replacing 2, 400 disc Sony CD changers (lots of CD ripping) for a single 8x8x10 inch PC case that sits behind my receiver. In this PC, I have 2 120GB hard disks run from an Epia VIA motherboard. I have a custom written Media Player that catalogs my over 945 CD (now Mp3) catalog.

Convergence is most definitely the way of the future.

I'll come down off my soap-box now and shut up.

Lyndel
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester


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