I'm an beginner and have a real dilema.

I'm building a home and my home theater is to be placed in a large room of 21'-6" x 16' with 10' ceilings (see room description below). I am looking to install rear speakers but am not sure where to do it, as the seating position will be at or close to the back wall. This is also complicated by the fact that a good portion of the rear "wall" is open to the kitchen. Do I use in-wall or in-ceiling speakers? Should they be direct, bi-pole or dipolar? WHERE do I place the speakers?

I currently run Mirage across the front (590is bipolars towers with an OM-C3 in the center).

One sales guy suggested Atlantic Technology System 10 dipolar speakers in the ceiling; another said to use 4 mirage in-walls, two low in the rear wall and two in the cieiling to either side of the sofa.

It's a large room. If you can imagine, the sitting position is across the room the short direction. To your left is a stone fireplace, behind you is a 'knee wall' about 3 1/2 feet tall beyond which is the kitchen. To your right is the 'hallway' which passes through the room and the stairs are beyond. There are windows to either side of the fireplace, so there isn't anyplace to stick side wall speakers (unless you put them just below the ceiling). It's a really tough room. HELP!

Do you have any pics ? What is the wall treatment ? is it carpeted ? What is the processor/amp ?

You can mount bi/di polar speakers down from the ceiling.... Or simply use a more directional in celing speaker with swivel tweaters to direct the Higs to your listening position. Not the best case, but works none the less.

There is a virtual tour of the home at:

[Link: pulte.com]

Please note the following: 1. We are not having the two story room, instead we are adding another bedroom there on the second floor. As such, there will be a 10 foot ceiling. Also, where you see the end of the wall between the kitchen and living room, you are actually looking at the end of a column which has a knee wall behind it. Therefore, the wall is open from 3' to 7 1/2' vertically. We intend on putting our sofa against that wall. L

I must be slow on the uptake; Where are you planning to install the display, and what kind of display are you planning to use.

Although I don't see any easy answers for a front projection screen I see even less hope for rear-projection and direct view, and at the cost/quality ratio of plasma this room begs for clever implementation of a front projection screen.

It "leaks" air everywhere (air being sound), so it would help to know where you intend to place your display, since in this room especially, optimum speaker placement will take a backseat to display placement.

Cite some landmarks in the model pictures to clarify where you intend to put things like the sofa. (Are you planning to put it on the back wall where the arch-top mirror and lamps are?)

(Nice floorplan for Mama by the way.)

I am using a 50" Mitsubishi Rear Projetion Big Screen. I intend on putting it below where the arch and blue painting high up on the wall are (where the wood cabinet is, to the left of the fireplace). Sofa will be directly opposite that with a second sofa and chair where they appear in the virtual tour. I anticipate that the sofa will be almost up against the knee wall (behind the column which you see).

I'm running Mirage 595is bi-polar towers in front with a Mirage OM-C3 center channel off of a Denon 1801. L

I am using a 50" Mitsubishi Rear Projetion Big Screen. I intend on putting it below where the arch and blue painting high up on the wall are (where the wood cabinet is, to the left of the fireplace). Sofa will be directly opposite that with a second sofa and chair where they appear in the virtual tour. I anticipate that the sofa will be almost up against the knee wall (behind the column which you see).

I'm running Mirage 595is bi-polar towers in front with a Mirage OM-C3 center channel off of a Denon 1801.

Again, we are NOT having the double high ceiling. We're having a 10' ceiling with a bedroom on top. L

OK 'parch, it was 1 part your desription, and 1 part "short attention span theater" on my end, but now I see what's cookin'. From your words I had thought the display was going over the fireplace.

I would say the guy who suggested two surrounds in back and two on the sides was probably on target IF you had the channels to power them up. At 70 Watts x 5 Channels your 1801 does not have the ponys or the true channel separation. Normally I'd say stick with Mirage, but they only have one in-wall offering and I think for your situation shopping for Atlantic Technology's with a more diffuse dispersion pattern might serve you better. (Nice that you're all Mirage across the front.)

Since your current receiver won't actually support the other two speakers you could just run cabling (PREWIRE) for all four and wait until you upgrade to a 7.1 receiver.

Also: Are the walls up yet? I mean is the house BUILT? If not, when do they start construction? You could consider having them bring down a little 1&1/2' wall up above the knee-wall so you could put in-wall surrounds up there.

OR.. wait until the construction crews have left and put a high shelf up there with partitions every so often. You could put your surrounds in the partitioned areas next to each column, and put Mama's knick-knacks out in the center areas to be vibrated off the shelf and broken during intense effect passages. (A little earthquake tacky shelf stuff will prevent that calamity.) The Mirage OM-R2's might be good candidates for this scenario.

When rooms restrict (or animals attack) drastic measures must sometimes be employed; you can mount surround speakers in the ceiling pointing down if your walls won't easily accept them. With this plan in mind, something with a driver array like the Atlantic's would definitely help.

Whatever you do, if the drywall's not up yet you should definitely prewire this room for at the very least 7.1, or whatever x.1 you feel you'll be shopping for in the future. (IMHO, your Denon's on the ropes.)

ALSO: While the walls are open you should try and identify a central "hub" location for two 1&1/2" to 2" conduits running from the ground floor to the upper attic. When you go to distribute sound, add security, intercoms etc. this will save your bacon.

With nowhere else to go, a security company WILL fish wires under your carpeting "line-'o-site" to each protected entry point, and if allowed to do so, it WILL eventually mess up your padding, and might even show up on low, flat-lying jute and berber style carpeting.

If you even have an inkling that you aren't up to all this, get a low voltage contractor to come and consult with you. If you speak to the builder's electrical contractor make certain he's had experience with the type of wiring you're doing, otherwise use someone with A/V experience.

Spending a little to get future-cabling in the walls now may mean the difference between being able to make alternate choices in the future, and possibly saying "no" because it's too darned expensive and disruptive to the household to retro-wire.


This has "Zone 2" written all over it = PREWIRE FOR IT!

Thank you so much!! Excellent advice, THANK YOU!! There is a slight wall coming down from the ceiling above the opening. I thought of putting the speakers in there. I'd like to spend approx. $4-500 no more on surround speakers, so the Atlantics are probably out. Do you kjnow of any other in-wall di-pole speaker out there?

I also was thinking of doing a conduit. Any suggestion on material type? PVC? Metal? Etc.

You could do a search on in wall bipole dipole speakers, but just because you find a pair of surrounds that meet that criteria doesn't mean you'll be happy with the result.

Don't get hung up on inwalls if you can afford those Mirage OM-R2's. You might be able to strike a deal with the builder on a custom built-in "cubby" that is large enough to accomodate the Mirages. Those speakers look fairly big, so chances are the same built-in space will easily house your next speaker choice, although the Mirages should last quite a while.

You might get the builder to extend that "slight wall coming down from the ceiling above the opening" a little and create a floating shelf all the way across that is still closed on the backside so it won't be open and visible from the kitchen. OR.. have them close off ONLY the speaker cubby-holes, and leave the middle of the shelf open so that items displayed on the shelf can be viewed from both sides. OR.. close the middle off on the HT room side, and close the speaker alcoves off to the kitchen side. Speakers seen only in the living room, knick-knacks seen only in the kitchen. That gives you the Pee-Wee Herman "I meant to do that!" effect.

All those "modification" to the existing plans are simply stick framing, gypsum, and drywall mud, with no structural liabilities. In other words if you can draw it on paper you should be able to get the contractor to do it.

You may also be able to work it into the purchase price of the home, or tell the seller/developer that your wife saw such a feature in another builder's model, and your pending sale hangs in the balance. You'd be surprised how fast they may scramble.

OR.. strike a deal with the KITCHEN CABINET PEOPLE to do you a custom matching "bridge/shelf" from one column to the next, IN PLACE OF the little upper wall.


I used PVC electrical conduit from Carlon, but you'll need to check local building codes, and remember conduit is extremely cheap = if you have several contingencies in mind put a piece of conduit (OR TWO) wherever you think you might want to 'come down from the attic/go up to the attic'. If you NEVER use a particular run of conduit you can always leave it buried in the wall for pennies compared to ripping/patching gypsum later.

If you go for a security system later you may be able to use the conduit as a reason to demand a better deal on the total price. Wait until the proposal is in, ask about the details of the "extremely difficult" installation, and them impale the sales-shark on your pre-existing conduit.

You can find Carlon at Home Depot, but if you plan to employ an electrical contractor let him make a few nickels on the conduit sale - it'll inspire some goodwill as opposed to him coming on the job and seeing 7 or 8 lengths of pre-purchased conduit. That would probably mark you as a cheapskate in his mind. Besides, who are you going to get the building code guidelines from? You don't want your home being held up by inspectors due to some little discrepancy.