^^^ Agreed. We went with Crestron. I wanted a one stop source for lighting control, shades, AV control and distribution that wasn't actually a mish-mash of brands that were the result of a bunch of acquisitions.

We tried C4 and it's a good product, but I can't stand the company.

Any that are available thru distribution. I would make a list but 1st we would need to define 'control system'. That will vary a lot depending on the person and their perception.

Technically Harmony is a control system. But many here would argue against that, even if it is true.
Same with URC distribution lines, they are control systems but because they lack certain control protocols (or ability to write your own drivers), some don't consider them as such - even though they are.
RTI.
Crestron has minimums for factory direct dealers. But as I understand it, you can get equipment from places without being a dealer and places you can access the software if you really look around. Plus they don't lock the dealer (any person) out of the system - as long as you have the correct credentials.

Really, if you have access to the software and have the correct credentials (if applied), ANY of the popular control systems can be worked on.
C4 is the ONLY control company (that I'm aware of) that can and will lock a person (dealer, programmer, etc.) out, not allowing them to access the system at all. They own it!
Doesn't matter if the customer payed for it, if the dealer payed for it, or anyone that has actual possession of the system; C4 has ultimate control of that system and can choose who to allow access to it at anytime.

Which IMO brings up the whole legal issue of intellectual property. If someone pays for a product 'in full', how the f^ can the courts be allowing these dirty companies to essential still own the hardware still (thru software ransom). I mean, isn't this just legalized ransomware! Shouldn't it be illegal!
To be clear: locking the hardware so it is not accessible. Intellectual property applies to the programming on the hardware. A company should have the right to not allow access to 'their' programming if they so choose. Customer or another programmer would have to start from scratch. But they could use the hardware.

We switched from Elan to RTI when "G" first showed up. We've never looked back and have some large systems out there.

I would say none of the major players, but that's not the issue we're talking about.  C4 software would check in with their servers (at least back then) and if you were not a current dealer, they would shut down your access completely.

All the rest (as far as I know) will probably not allow you to update software or update profiles but you can still access and make changes to your client's current system such as changing codes or brands.

Being locked out of software updates is not a great long term solution, but the lockout will not usually cause immediate problems. For example, iOS updates can withdraw support of critical functions required to run older Apps. If the dealer had current access to controller system programming, things could be updated. And adding current models or replacing failed models, say a new camera, doorbell, and such, will probably be impossible without current software.

I just went through this and the regional rep was pretty wishy-washy about it at first. When I first spoke with him and told him we were getting product from another dealer, he took the company line and gave it a pretty hard no. After we spoke a bit and he knew we weren't Crestron noobs, he *eventually* said, "yeah that's ok", because I asked him, "well how do we support our existing jobs if we're not (yet) a dealer and we can't get parts sideways?"

The thing about software, for pretty much all of it, is that the clock is always ticking. Getting it is one thing, but keeping it updated is another. For Crestron, there's a lot to keep up with between versions of software and device firmware. But they catalog it very well, so you can roll back versions if you need to. I like that.

Also - Crestron Home works much like C4, in that you don't save the project to your computer. But to ensure that you can retrieve the config in the event of a processor failure, you need to register the processor when you set it up. Otherwise, it's a whole process. Not impossible, but a bit of a chore, I guess.

So is Elan the only 'Integration' company that allows dealers to support if they stop selling the line?

Crestron has a classification of 'programmers' I hear, do you automatically get moved over, or more hoops to jump?

Extron does pretty well with this. Similar to Crestron, when you pass their programming certification, it's for the individual and not the company.

Cert is mine forever, even if they shut our company down for purchasing products.

We have been a long time RTI dealer and could not be happier. They have new funding and build a solid product, so they are stable.

URC let's you build your own basic drivers.

If you want to write a 2 way module and know how to program in the TCL language, they allow you access to the SDK for that too.

So not sure what you mean by this comment.

That's URC Total Control, which is factory direct only (and falls under some of these manufacture controlled guidelines).
I mention 'URC distribution'; which includes CCP and HomePro. No limitations for dealers there, no getting cutoff, and no minimums to worry about. But you don't get the integration like you do with TC.

until the swap the volume and channel............. i wont even open an email from them!!!!!!!!!! that is literally the stupidest shit i have EVER seen!!!!!

Crestron ecosystem and flexibility/customization are the things that keep me away from the more "sandbox" style of C-4 and Savant.

Never programmed C4 but worked on a few systems as a tech. Coming from Crestron, AMX and RTI, I was floored at the lack of customization.

Had a similar experience when I went to Savant training. I asked pointed questions of the trainers, the oddball "what about" things that often spring up in higher end residential systems. I did not get answers I liked.

IMO URC has much better looking products than C4 and is very flexible.

They tell people that the best way to use their remotes/hubs is to create drivers for the devices- how does your definition of 'driver' differ from theirs?