QQQ - what are your sources??? Where are these rewards offered??? I could use an extra $10,000.

And anyway, we're not talking about the difference between reasonably decent cables, we're talking about bi-wiring.

By the way, I don't think that "science is just a bunch of bunk", I was merely pointing out that no matter how sound or airtight the science behind something that should improve the quality of a sound system, the only test that matters in the end is the client's ear.

Just having another read of your response, are you saying that if people can't hear the difference it doesn't exist, or just that its irrelevant??

And one final point, in your response you only said that in the tests, "you have NO idea what you are listening to." This doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't hear a difference, just that they couldn't decide if one was better than the other. I can't pick the difference between one good bottle of red wine and the next, but thats NOT scientific proof that all red wine is the same.

If a man speaks in the forest, and his wife isn't around to hear him, is he still wrong?

Westie, either you're not explaining yourself fully or you are just wrong:

" A wire cannot modulate one signal onto an other as long as the wire behaves as a linear system. The ability of a wire or any other linear element to modulate a signal goes against any signal analysis method proven to work in a lab and by theory."

When current passes through a wire, a magnetic field develops around it. This is scientifically demonstratable. If another wire is in its near proximity, the magnetic field induces a small current flow in the one next to it. This is also scientifically demonstrable. In modern electronics we make this 'side by side' wire system more efficient by coiling the wires near one another, possibly adding a ferrite core to improve the thing, and we call it a TRANSFORMER.

Better cabling will twist and turn the wiring however way their formula calls for to minimize the magnetic field situation - a twisted pair for instance is effective because the twists cancel the magnetic field significantly, but never completely.

Now maybe you are talking some perfect world wire, but that doesn't exist. Did I miss something in your explanation? I may have because you sounded pretty sure when you wrote it.

Thanks,
=Tom

P.S. Bi-wiring in the 70's and 80's when I heard any discussion about it ALWAYS meant bi-amplifying, as my previous post explains.

AussieAV heard an improvement in his Polks but had bi-amping along with his bi-wiring.

Larry noted Sunfire's bi-wire recommendation, but note that there is a slightly different signal at each set of jacks...

Tom what you are talking about is the signal imposed onto an other wire by magnetic coupling. It will be at the same frequency as the original signal. This is a perfectly linear system. What Ernie was talking about is that the presence of a signal at a low frequency will some how effect a signal at a higher frequency. This of course is not possible unless there is some non linearity in the system.

To get the most bang for the buck when you are bi-amping you must use active crossovers in front of the amp and remove the crossovers at the speaker. It is the impedance of the crossovers that effect the signal the most, particularly at lower frequencies.

To all the non-believers of bi-wire.You must be kidding . So do all you guys think also theirs no diffrence between cheap 16/2 and good 12/2 on a THX speaker package.Or that cheap 18/2 works just great on your high-end Krell, Martin Logan package. I have heard even noticable sound diffrences between good, better, best bi-wire cables. I will be honest and say I don't have the expertise of all the scientist/math whizes. But I do have a hell of a trained ear. And it breaks down to plain ole resistence. Like Larry said. Resistance causes loss in power,over even small distances which in turn effects sound quality. My company uses 14/4 with a CAT5 for control on all our multi-room runs. We know it would cost less for the 16/4 but back to that resistance thing... THXRick

Yo Rick, Your statement is correct, but do you realize that the difference in resistance is on the order of 0.1 ohms or so. This can easily be compensated by turning the amp slightly up. At audio frequencies other distributed elements have virtually no effect on the signal.

Well, after several days with my sub amps receiving their feed from line-level instead of speaker-level, and I have to say the bass is a bit stronger and deeper.

I have a bass-test CD, and the response at 30 and 20 Hz is noticeably better. Even the barely-audible-but-definitely-perceptable 10 Hz 'flutter' is stronger.

I guess you could now say that my speakers are "bi-amped/tri-wired": line-level from pre/pro (full-range output per Def Tech recommendation) to sub amps and bi-wired from main amps.

Larry
www.fineelectricco.com
My system

Larry, no active subwoofer should ever be hooked up via speaker level in the first place. There is really no similarity (as you know) between that and biwiring.

This message was edited by QQQ on 04/27/03 17:38.