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Topic:
Why MX-810 Activity macros don't work
This thread has 6 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Sunday November 8, 2009 at 12:52
jimbob_sf
Long Time Member
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November 2009
11
I'd like to share what I learned over the past week in programming a MX-810. I came from a MX-850, so it took me a while to shift mental gears from an open to wizard arch. I've not got a strong template to work from.

I may be way off on my reverse engineering, but it would be helpful to others in the future to validate / correct what I spent far too many hours figuring out.

1. You have to set up the devices in a way that allows activities to work. Specifically, the 810 appears to internally identify a button purely by its name, not device/name. For database folks, that is the primary key. Ex. Power On cannot be the same name of the power on button for > 1 device. You have to name the power on button 3 different ways: St Pwr On, Ca Pwr On, Tv Pwr On (for stereo, cable, tv). Why?

When you build activities (for my 3 device example), I think the 810 just sees the name Power On 3 times and either sees the same command 3 times and sends only one or blasts all 3 and only the last actually gets out. It sees Power On 3 times, not Stereo Power On, Cable Power On, and TV Power On as 3 separate commands (the primary key of device / key). By naming the button uniquely across devices, the software sees 3 unique names and properly sends 3 separate commands. It doesn't matter if you've taken the care to ensure the IR commands are unique.

2. The pages for the devices are the starting point for the creation of the pages for activities and there is no link once created. Don't build activities until the devices are set up really well. Specifically, once you build pages for devices and create the activities, there is no dynamic link to keep them in sync. If you change hard/soft keys for devices, you need to manually go and do the same changes for the activity if that is what you want. I actually think this is mostly good b/c an activity will likely deviate from the base device.

3. Only the Activity Macro wizard page can set up the activity. It sets up the activity and creates commands like "leave alone" and the only equivalent to "jump to" that exists in the whole program - "display page". I use the activity macro to create the activity and go right to the browser to remove all the entries and put them back the way I want. It's a balance between the open and wizard styles. Once you remove a command like "leave alone", you can't manually add it. Also, you can't change or delete the "Display Page" line or change it in the browser.

3. The Browser is still your savior. You can still use the browser to manually adjust your macros. If the browser wasn't there or still allowed me to work in a pseudo open method, I'd have thrown the thing out the window.

4. I manually assigned sound control for each device to the stereo rather than use the copy function. I found that the copy function only worked once. Once I copied them from stereo to cable, I couldn't copy to tv. Yes, the activity allows sound control to be defined, but I wanted sound control on the device in case I was on the device page and wanted sound to work.

4a. Once your device or activity spans more than 1 device, you must set the RF flashers to All for the devices. Again, the software seems to lack a more granular primary key (device/function) and only sees one device and sends all the commands to one flasher. In short, I had to set all the flashers to "all". I'm using a MRF-260, so its may be a combination that is the problem, but it doesn't seem like it.

There are lots of other great bits of "how to" in the forum, but this is what I didn't find and was looking for in one place.

Oh, a "jump to" function. This would really, really, really make this thing tolerable.
OP | Post 2 made on Monday November 9, 2009 at 20:44
jimbob_sf
Long Time Member
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November 2009
11
If anyone is reading this and knows I'm totally wrong, I'd love to be corrected so I know what the heck I'm doing wrong.
Post 3 made on Monday November 9, 2009 at 23:28
dsp81
Advanced Member
Joined:
Posts:
October 2007
782
On November 8, 2009 at 12:52, jimbob_sf said...
1. You have to set up the devices in a way that allows activities to work. Specifically, the 810 appears to internally identify a button purely by its name, not device/name. For database folks, that is the primary key. Ex. Power On cannot be the same name of the power on button for > 1 device. You have to name the power on button 3 different ways: St Pwr On, Ca Pwr On, Tv Pwr On (for stereo, cable, tv). Why?

When you build activities (for my 3 device example), I think the 810 just sees the name Power On 3 times and either sees the same command 3 times and sends only one or blasts all 3 and only the last actually gets out. It sees Power On 3 times, not Stereo Power On, Cable Power On, and TV Power On as 3 separate commands (the primary key of device / key). By naming the button uniquely across devices, the software sees 3 unique names and properly sends 3 separate commands. It doesn't matter if you've taken the care to ensure the IR commands are unique.

This is not my experience. I have noticed that many (read: most) devices in the 810 database are not correctly setup. While it may show discretes, often they are not mapped to the correct button. I have found that it is best to add devices, add one dummy activity and then repair your devices. That includes re-mapping the power and other discretes.

The database often does not have the power on and power off discretes assigned to the correct buttons. I usually try to use the Browser to manually add the correct power HEX to the device (not the activity). I then go in and use Tune Up > Solve Automated Activity Problems > Change Power Method for a component.

I then use tune Up > Solve Automated Activity Problems > Change Input Management Method... to correctly set all the inputs.

I do this for all devices. I then go back and delete the dummy activity, then create my activities from scratch. As you state, it is important that you make any changes in the Browser on the device and not the activity. The activity copies the device when it creates the activity. If you change one, you have to change the other - they do not synchronize. So it is best to fix your devices, then create your activities

3. Only the Activity Macro wizard page can set up the activity. It sets up the activity and creates commands like "leave alone" and the only equivalent to "jump to" that exists in the whole program - "display page". I use the activity macro to create the activity and go right to the browser to remove all the entries and put them back the way I want. It's a balance between the open and wizard styles. Once you remove a command like "leave alone", you can't manually add it. Also, you can't change or delete the "Display Page" line or change it in the browser.

You can change the power state in the Tune Up > Solve Automated Activity Problems > Specify what's on, off or left alone. You can also add steps using Modify timing, order or add a step.

3. The Browser is still your savior. You can still use the browser to manually adjust your macros. If the browser wasn't there or still allowed me to work in a pseudo open method, I'd have thrown the thing out the window.

I generally try to avoid macro programming in the Browser - especially for input and power commands. The 810 tracks power and input states. If you use the browser and mess that up, then the remote will behave erratically.

4a. Once your device or activity spans more than 1 device, you must set the RF flashers to All for the devices. Again, the software seems to lack a more granular primary key (device/function) and only sees one device and sends all the commands to one flasher. In short, I had to set all the flashers to "all". I'm using a MRF-260, so its may be a combination that is the problem, but it doesn't seem like it.

There is no alias function on the 810. There is also no alias function on the 900, either. You have to step up to the 980 to get what you are looking for. Whether the 810 or 900, you can only assign a device (or activity with the 810) to a single flasher or all ports.
Post 4 made on Tuesday November 10, 2009 at 20:15
davet2020
Senior Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2005
1,051
On November 8, 2009 at 12:52, jimbob_sf said...
|Only the wizard page can set up the activity. It sets up the activity and creates commands like "leave alone" and the only equivalent to "jump to" that exists in the whole program - "display page". I use the activity macro to create the activity and go right to the browser to remove all the entries and put them back the way I want. It's a balance between the open and wizard styles. Once you remove a command like "leave alone", you can't manually add it. Also, you can't change or delete the "Display Page" line or change it in the browser.
3. The Browser is still your savior. You can still use the browser to manually adjust your macros. If the browser wasn't there or still allowed me to work in a pseudo open method, I'd have thrown the thing out the window.

I also completely remove all the Wizard activity macros. But, the problem with using the browser is that the codes are not descriptive when using the browser. As an example, when dragging "power on" for the Denon to the macro it only comes out as "power on". It is hard to keep track on whether that "power on" is for the Denon, or the DirecTV, or the plasma.

Instead of using the browser I now use the following steps:
Main menu..go to Tune Up
go to "Solve automated activity problems"
go to "timing timing, order, or add a step"...select the activity on the top
Once here I will delete all the Wizard commands except the "Display page" which is the closest thing to a "go to" page.
Once here I will add the steps necessary for the macros. The macro commands such as "power on" are labeled by the device they control.

There seems a few different ways to make this remote work. The only thing is that to make the remote work you have to do something custom because the Wizard software doesn't work.

Dave T.
If you are going to do the job...why not do it the right way?
www.fairfaxavi.com
Post 5 made on Tuesday November 10, 2009 at 21:33
dsp81
Advanced Member
Joined:
Posts:
October 2007
782
On November 10, 2009 at 20:15, davet2020 said...
I also completely remove all the Wizard activity macros. But, the problem with using the browser is that the codes are not descriptive when using the browser. As an example, when dragging "power on" for the Denon to the macro it only comes out as "power on". It is hard to keep track on whether that "power on" is for the Denon, or the DirecTV, or the plasma.

The problem with doing that has been noted on the board: the 810 tracks power states and deleting activity macros and using the browser can cause the remote to behave erratically. Because you can't edit the Power Off macro, the 810 will only turn off what it thinks is on. And it only knows what it turned on if it correctly sets the variables. And it only knows what variables to set if you use create the activities using the wizard.
Post 6 made on Tuesday November 10, 2009 at 22:57
davet2020
Senior Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2005
1,051
On November 10, 2009 at 21:33, dsp81 said...
The problem with doing that has been noted on the board: the 810 tracks power states and deleting activity macros and using the browser can cause the remote to behave erratically. Because you can't edit the Power Off macro, the 810 will only turn off what it thinks is on. And it only knows what it turned on if it correctly sets the variables. And it only knows what variables to set if you use create the activities using the wizard.

I include "all on" and "all off" activities which turn on all the devices on and off. I don't trust the 810 keeping track of the power variables, especiallly if it is an IR only installation.

Dave T.
If you are going to do the job...why not do it the right way?
www.fairfaxavi.com
Post 7 made on Tuesday November 10, 2009 at 23:08
dsp81
Advanced Member
Joined:
Posts:
October 2007
782
On November 10, 2009 at 22:57, davet2020 said...
I include "all on" and "all off" activities which turn on all the devices on and off. I don't trust the 810 keeping track of the power variables, especiallly if it is an IR only installation.

Dave T.

The problem is that you can't actually edit the Power Off macro. So, while using the browser works for power on, it can lead to problems with the power off.


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