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Topic:
Why aren't my X-10 commands getting through?
This thread has 18 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Monday July 12, 1999 at 12:05
Robert (RCI Automation)
Historic Forum Post
I thought I would create this new thread because so many people have asked questions (via posts to this forum and through e-mail) related to this topic.

This is a very common problem, with a fairly simple solution. The reason an X-10 signal may not get from point A (transmitter) to point B (receiver), is due to either AC line noise that conflicts with the X-10 signal, because the signal has weakened along its journey because of the distance, or a combination of the two.

When these conditions exist, it doesn't mean that the X-10 transmissions will be affected the same way every time. Some people have reported that the X-10 signal gets through only some of the time and they can't figure out why. This is a normal symptom of the two conditions I described in the prior paragraph (i.e. unreliable or inconsistent operation). Since AC line noise that affects an X-10 signal can get introducted at any point along the power line, there are many variables involved in this problem.

The good news is that there are easy solutions. These solutions involve the purchase of products. It is possible to "work around" the conditions if you have only a few X-10 receivers but if you expand the system you will be back in the same place. Also, a "work around" solution probably will not result in the best reliability.

First Step: Install an amplified signal bridge. All homes need a signal bridge (for reliable operation), to allow an X-10 signal to "jump" from one electrical phase to the other(s). A passive signal bridge allows the signal to "jump", but it is not amplified. So if the signal is already a little weak when it gets to the passive signal bridge, it will "jump" to the other phase, and continue to weaken and may not be strong enough when it gets to the intended receiver (especially if there is line noise inolved). That is why an amplified signal bridge is so much better. It amplifies the X-10 signal over 5,000 percent to ensure that it is strong enough to reach the reciever. In addition, the strength many times will overcome moderate AC line noise.

Step Two: This step is only necessary if step one didn't solve the problem, which means you have more than "moderate" AC line noise that is affecting the X-10 signals. This is normally caused by an older TV, printer, surge supressor, or rechargable razor or similar. You can identify the offender by unplugging it to see if it solves the problem. Keep in mind that the results of this procedure are only conclusive if you have already completed step one and installed the amplified signal bridge. If unplugging the electrical device solves the problem, you can purchase individual noise block modules that will filter an noise that would affect an X-10 signal. These modules are about the size of a lamp module.

RCI Automation carries both of the "solution" products mentioned in this post.

Robert
RCI Automation
rciautomation@csi.com
[Link: ourworld.compuserve.com]
OP | Post 2 made on Monday July 12, 1999 at 18:15
Jim Fouch
Historic Forum Post
When I first started using X10, I installed a signal bridge and everything seemed to work okay, but as I installed more devices, I started to have intermittent problems. And, as time passed the problems happened more frequently.

I installed an amplified bridge two weeks ago and everything now works in a reliable manner - or at least as reliable as I expect X-10 to work - this is not a mission critical signaling system - you wouldn't want it to be part of the space shuttle, but it is far more reliable than any computer that I have owned in the past 15 years and I am pleased with it.

Btw, as each X-10 receiver 'sees' the signal, I wonder if an increase in the number of receivers might increase the likelihood that amplification might be needed.

Cheers, Jim.
OP | Post 3 made on Tuesday July 13, 1999 at 17:57
Ed Maurus
Historic Forum Post
Why not just come up with a plug in amplifier that you can plug your controller into? Would save the cost of an electrician coming out and hooking a bridge up.
OP | Post 4 made on Tuesday July 13, 1999 at 21:51
Robert (RCI Automation)
Historic Forum Post
Ed:

If there was such a plug-in device, it would have to plug into a 220 volt wall receptacle. This is necessary because the signal bridge must bridge two 110 volt electrical phases (this would not work if your home had 3 electrical phases).

I have heard of some people connecting a 220 type plug to the wires on the signal bridge and plugging it into an unused clothes dryer receptacle. This type of installation may function but is not in compliance with the NEC and would not be UL approved.

However, many people also install the amplified signal bridge themselves, without the need for an electrician. This should only be done if you are familiar with your electrical panel though.

Robert
RCI Automation
rciautomation@csi.com
[Link: ourworld.compuserve.com]
OP | Post 5 made on Monday July 26, 1999 at 22:47
Tim Kriebel
Historic Forum Post
Ho Hum....Problem solved on IR543 not controlling everything in all rooms. In another post here I described the problem of my IR 543 not controlling lamps in bedrooms (4) using the Pronto, while working fine in the Great Room. While experimenting with a minicontroller, plugged into another outlet in the Great Room I discovered that it controlled everything in all rooms of the house. I then plugged the IR543 into that same outlet, and guess what??? I now control everything from my Pronto, including a wall switch in all rooms.

Moral of the story....ask around and get advice then try moving things around before you invest big bucks in something you don't need. I could have spent $200.00 on an amplified signal bridge if I had not been as curious and willing to experiment.

Problem solved...no additional expense.

Tim Kriebel
OP | Post 6 made on Tuesday July 27, 1999 at 10:36
Robert (RCI Automation)
Historic Forum Post
Tim:

That's great that you were able to get your system working without the extra expense. I mentioned earlier that through trial and error one might be able to find a place (sweet spot) to plug the transmitter (i.e. IR543) that would allow control of exisiting receivers if the distance isn't too great (all devices on the same electrical phase) and line noise is not excessive. Fortunatly the location you found is the same room where you want to use your Pronto.

You might find later that you have improved to an intermittent operation. What I mean is that even though it all works right now, on some days it might take several X-10 tranmissions to get through, or sometimes it may not work at all. This is because there are so many other variables on your power line (appliances plugged in, appliances plugged in and operating, etc.). This also includes any of your neighbors on the same side of your utility transformer because their electrical noise also has an effect on your system.

If you plan to add to your system at a later time, you may also have to experiment with where to plug in the new modules. Unfortunately there isn't a choice of location when it comes to replacing a wall switch.

While I'm glad that you are satisfied with the operation of your system, I just wanted to let other readers know that there are some pitfalls to your solution.

Robert
RCI Automation
rciautomation@csi.com
[Link: ourworld.compuserve.com]


OP | Post 7 made on Monday August 9, 1999 at 23:42
Jim
Historic Forum Post
Wouldn't the amplified signal bridge not only amplify the signal, but the noise as well.
I do not have a bridge nor do I have any problems with unreliable commands being sent. But, I am using an AMX interface card.
OP | Post 8 made on Tuesday August 10, 1999 at 11:50
Robert (RCI Automation)
Historic Forum Post
Jim:

No. The amplified signal bridge (aka phase coupler) is tuned to pick up and amplify the X-10 signal only. It will not prevent noise, but it will not amplify it unless the noise is disguising itself as an X-10 signal :)

As I mentioned in previous posts, in most cases an amplified signal bridge will be needed to acheive reliable X-10 communication in an expansive system. What I mean by an expansive system is where X-10 transmitters and receivers are spread throughout the home. The size of the home is also a factor. As you would expect, the larger the home, the greater the need for this device.

Robert
RCI Automation
rciautomation@compuserve.com
[Link: ourworld.compuserve.com]
OP | Post 9 made on Friday August 20, 1999 at 13:46
Roland S
Historic Forum Post
Would this work to solve a signal bridge problem?

What if you had two Wireless Link Modules (RF Transceiver Module) plugged into each phase of the house.

I'm assuming an "On" or "Off" signal would be sent twice, but would it work?


OP | Post 10 made on Friday August 20, 1999 at 18:04
Robert (RCI Automation)
Historic Forum Post
No. Each transceiver would send a signal at the same time, and the signals would collide. Phase couplers are made for this purpose and are what should be used to solve a phase or bridging problem. The amplified type are the best type because they increase the signal strength. A passive coupler actually decreases the signal strength.

Robert
RCI Automation
rciautomation@compuserve.com
[Link: ourworld.compuserve.com]

OP | Post 11 made on Monday August 23, 1999 at 14:41
Brian Porter
Historic Forum Post
Just as a note... I had some issues when setting up my X10 system over the weekend. It consists of 1 543 in the bedroom(another one soon in the living room), 6 appliance modules, 1 screw in, 2 lamp modules, and 3 wall switches.

I have been moving my 543 back and forth between the living room and bedroom. I noticed sometimes pretty unreliable operation of the 543 in the bedroom but it appeared to be an IR problem. The device codes would get sent but the off command would not. The red LED wouldn't flash. Yet whenever I used the hard keys on top, it worked fine.

The 543 was sitting on top of my TV underneath my remote control A/B switch. I finally moved it over to my computer desk and plugged it into a differnet outlet and now it works perfectly.

OP | Post 12 made on Tuesday August 24, 1999 at 15:05
Roland S
Historic Forum Post
This is a message for Robert at RCI Automation.

I remember once when I asked you about an amplified signal bridge and you told me which Leviton model I would need. I have since forgotten the model number. Could you please refresh my memory? And does RCI Automation sell them?

Does it get installed on an existing 220V breaker or does a new one need to be installed?

And to anyone else... if you had to hire an electrician to install your signal bridge, how much did they charge you? I prefer not to electrocute myself anytime soon. :)
OP | Post 13 made on Sunday August 29, 1999 at 19:37
Eric
Historic Forum Post
Been enjoying all of your posts.

Also, Robert, you are doing a great job explaining X-10 theroy. You are quite a professional.

I've fiddled with X-10 since the seventies, I finally became happy with the technology and satisfied with its reliabilty after I installed a BLOCKING Coupler in my electrical panel. This couples the A and B leg of my electrical system, PLUS it prevents anyone else's X-10 signals from entering my panel. It also prevents my X-10 signals from leaving my panel and affecting anyone else. I now have my entire condo automated with PCS swtiches and a Time Commander Plus with IR expander, Just added the Pronto too. A very happy camper here. X-10 is a very reliable and robust technology IF you understand how it works and spend a few bucks to allow it to.

PS I use the Zantech RC68 remote to teach my Pronto and IR expander. These codes trigger the TimeCommander to control any X-10, or for that matter, any other IR driven or hardwired device in my home. The RC68 provides plenty of IR codes to work with. And, yes Robert, I want to upgrade to Stargate at some point in the not too distant future.

Have fun!
OP | Post 14 made on Sunday August 29, 1999 at 21:08
Robert (RCI Automation)
Historic Forum Post
Eric,

I appreciate your positive comments.

Well since you mentioned you might be upgrading to Stargate in the near future, the new LCD control panels may give you a little nudge. We are within 1 month of shipping this fantastic Stargate add-on that uses the Stargate's RS-485 port. I have been a beta tester for this product and have found that this product has turned out be be even better than I ever expected. It's very fast, reliable, easily configurable, sharp looking, and easy to install. Up to 96 different screens (each with 16 buttons/functions)can be designed with drag-and-drop operation using the familiar Windows Event Manager software. The LCD screen supports bitmaps and text, and one Stargate can support up to 16 of these control panels.

We have a page on our website dedicated to this new product where there is a picture and many details. You can find it at:
[Link: ourworld.compuserve.com]

Also, I have written a review of this product as a beta tester and would be happy to e-mail it anyone that is interested.

Robert
RCI Automation
rciautomation@compuserve.com
[Link: ourworld.compuserve.com]
OP | Post 15 made on Friday September 3, 1999 at 10:03
joe
Historic Forum Post
Here is a good one let me know if you have any ideas.

I've been trying to use x-10 in my new(old) house unsuccessfully. Ill put a transciever in and then a module somewhere. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt. Ive moved them around and still get the intermitancy, so I have the idea that I need the signal bridge. But than after like a day, it stops working completly because somehow my transciever got fried(or something). Ive gone throught two transcievers now in two different outlets. Any ideas. Ive checked the voltage and its fine too.
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