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Topic:
Where can I get long-range IR emitters?
This thread has 23 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 24.
Post 16 made on Saturday February 19, 2005 at 19:20
pilgram
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David
I've placed emitters inside components hundreds, if not thousnds of times and have NEVER had any interference issues.

As for the procedure, some pieces have existing 'slots' that the emitter will fit thru, others will need a small hole.
Placement is the trial and error part.
Sometimes it has to be located almost directly over the IR reciever(probably your VCR), other times, just placing inside the case anywhere works(mostly sat recievers).

At any rate, your problems will be solved, your equipment won't have silly looking 'things' stuck to the front ( that WILL fall off), and you won't have a bunch of wires cluttering up the front of your otherwise attractive installation.

While this may require a little more time on your part, its really the only way to go if you want a bullet proof set up that works every time and doesn't look like the stuff I rigged up when I was in High school!

Mike.
Every day is a good day.......some are just better than others!

Proud to say that my property is protected by a high speed wireless device!
OP | Post 17 made on Sunday February 20, 2005 at 07:30
David Anderson
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Mike,
Thanks for giving me the confidence to place emitters inside my equipment. I hate the idea of sticking things to the fascia of upmarket kit and if you have successfully put them inside the case around 1000 times then you are clearly a professional installer who knows what he is talking about.

However, I may not have to go down this route. After further investigation of RF options and after giving more thought to ways of screening the IR receiver from its associated IR transmitter to avoid potential feedback problems, I have just ordered a couple of Powermid Dual Power IR Extenders. These operate on an RF frequency of 433 MHz which I guess is unlikely to interfere with wireless Ethernet networks using 2.4 GHz. I will use one IR Receiver (RF transmitter) and two IR Transmitters (RF receivers) in our main living room and the spare IR Receiver in our main bedroom.
OP | Post 18 made on Friday February 25, 2005 at 08:14
David Anderson
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Mike (Pilgram),
I have had mixed results with an RF-based IR extender (ref separate thread "Erratic results with Powermid IR Extender") and it's being returned for a refund. I'm now back to the idea of a hard wired IR distribution system.

I will be using Cat5e cable and possibly Xantech kit. Would you please clarify exactly which type of IR emitter you normally install INSIDE the equipment cases. Must they be 'blaster' emitters?
Post 19 made on Friday February 25, 2005 at 08:51
pilgram
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I've had good results the standard 283M emitters that are included in the 291KIT from Zantech.
The 291KIT includes: reciever, connecting block, power supply, and four emitters.

If you have more than four devices to be controlled, you'll need a 790-00 connecting block (supports 10 emitters), don't get the dual emitters for inside placement.

I've also used the Russound IRJ-1 set with good results.

I've never actually tried 'blasters' before.But they would probably make placement a little easier.

You should have good results with any of the above.

Mike.
Every day is a good day.......some are just better than others!

Proud to say that my property is protected by a high speed wireless device!
OP | Post 20 made on Friday February 25, 2005 at 09:05
David Anderson
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Given what you said before about emitter placement, I guess that the Xantech 283M emitters act as 'blasters' over a range of several centimetres - and are not limited to transmitting IR over the 1 or 2 millimetres that would be required for their normal role as stick-on devices.

Thanks again for all your help.
Post 21 made on Friday February 25, 2005 at 23:25
pilgram
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The 283M's aren't a true 'blaster' in the sense that they aren't designed to 'fill a whole cabinet' of equipment.

The distance that they can be located from the reciever 'eye' depends alot on the ability of the reciever.

If you pull the cover on some of your equipment, you'll be suprised to find that the 'eye' is actually located a little ways behind the front 'glass' rather than flushed up against it. I've had some experiences where placing the emitter almost anywhere inside the case worked fine; some had to be located right in front of the 'eye'.

The best way to find out is to wire everything, point the remote control towards the new IR reciever ( since it is now located by your TV, you may have to temporarily turn it towards you, or get someone to run the remote for you) and move the emitter around until you find a good spot. It usually only takes 2 or 3 trys. For the record, the emitter fires IR out both sides (the 'sticky' side and the percieved 'front' side).

The emitters have a 6 foot, I mean, about a 2m lead on them so you should have enough length to do this with the piece out of the rack.

It probably took longer to explain this than it will take to do the first one!!

Good luck. It will be time well spent!

Edit- And You won't have to stand on one leg !

This message was edited by pilgram on 02/26/05 00:08 ET.
Every day is a good day.......some are just better than others!

Proud to say that my property is protected by a high speed wireless device!
Post 22 made on Monday February 28, 2005 at 00:45
ATOH
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SpeakerCraft has a micro mini emitter (the IRE-0.5) that is very small, designed to be placed inside equipment. It's not listed on their website but if you can find a dealer around you they might be worth checking out. Much smaller than a standard emitter.

It's listed as being "high output".
Why all the fighting and cussing? Can't Dave play nice? We're just here to learn and have fun. It was a harmless jab, laugh and get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BTW... S-E-A-R-C-H!!!
or do the work!!!
Post 23 made on Saturday March 5, 2005 at 03:24
Ernie Bornn-Gilman
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On 02/18/05 19:05 ET, automan1 said...
There won't be any interference form having two
emitters (floods) in one room.

The reasons you've been given against it are ridiculous
and not based in reality.

Well, no. (Yes they are.) (No, they're not.) Et cetera.

IR is light of a frequency we do not see, so we do not understand whether it will or will not bounce off of surfaces that we see visible light reflecting from. If you have ANY floods in a room where the output of a flood will reach the sensor (pickup), you could easily have feedback, meaning the flood would turn on solid or with some high-frquency oscillation, and the sensor would simply be picking that up and sending it to the flood. Over and over.

Walking through the room, IR reflections off of you might make this start, or might stop it if it occurs. So might raising or lowering a shade.

The small emitters guarantee that there will not be so much IR bouncing around that feedback will start. They are ugly and it is not easy to put them inside some gear. The little prisms do indeed increase lateral sensitivity of components, but if they do not ACTUALLY work in your situation, you have no solution.

I'm going to look at the other responses now and see if I have other comments.

Ah, yes, just one other thing; the other posts covered everything else. And this is only a picky detail for understanding the facts behind the behaviour.

On 02/19/05 04:46 ET, David Anderson said...
This means that using even one repeating flood
emitter will result in some components receiving
a signal from both the remote itself and the repeater
(perhaps with a time delay that might cause a
double action for, say, volume increase or channel
increment?).

Twenty years ago nobody would have considered time delay at all. Your signals are light and electricity, and electricity goes almost as fast as light, and light goes, well, just as fast as light! There cannot be any delays in a system that just converts from light to electricity to RF to electricity to light...that will be large enough for any of your equipment to notice it. I think I figured this out once as a lark and found that if one degree of phase shift would be a problem, your living room would have to be several hundred feet long for there to be a problem. And it would probably take at least thirty degrees of phase shift. That means double actions are impossible.

But today we are used to seeing signals processed digitally, and also sent up 25,000 miles and then back the same amount (roughly 1/4 to 1/3 the distance light travels in a second), so we have seen and heard delays.

The layout of my room also makes
it very likely that the receiver that drives any
flood emitter will see the output of these floods
and the warning about feedback therefore seems
highly plausible.

Both these potential issues (i.e. double signals
and feedback) seem equally relevant even if I
used an RF solution.

Well, yes, if you use floods with the RF. The powermid idea that you tried has floods, but they are more like just heavy rains; they put out a lot of IR compared to a regular emitter, but nothing like a real flood. You are not likely to have feedback with them. But as you found, they are flaky.

The RF solution is classically (and also in some baroque and rococo A/V systems, not to mention the romantic ones) used with small emitters, so we are back to the little guys that fall off all the time, or putting them inside.


Don't put a flood inside a component because too much IR can overwhelm the IR circuits and commands will work apparently randomly.

This message was edited by Ernie Bornn-Gilman on 03/05/05 03:36 ET.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
OP | Post 24 made on Saturday March 5, 2005 at 18:03
David Anderson
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On 03/05/05 03:24 ET, Ernie Bornn-Gilman said...

The RF solution is classically (and also in some
baroque and rococo A/V systems, not to mention
the romantic ones) used with small emitters, so
we are back to the little guys that fall off all
the time, or putting them inside.

I rather think that these small emitters belong to the minimalist school ....
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