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What gives them the right???
This thread has 21 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Saturday February 9, 2002 at 22:19
jrolmstd
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This station identification thing has gotten way out of hand. It started out with small logos in the bottom right hand side of the screen that came and went. It has now progressed to the point I have to put with a banner adds stretching from one side of a screen to another taking up close to a 10th of my big screen TV. What's I guy supposed to do, buy a bigger set just so he can regain the lost footage?

Some stations don't use watermarks and others don't even bother to have them fad in and out they just leave them plastered up there for the full length of the show. Haven't these idiots ever heard of the burn in danger with rear projection TV's? Why should I have to set through a streaming banner add for some show coming up latter on? Do the station operators really think I can not live without knowing when the next sitcom is coming on? The biggest burn is the damn premium channels that are starting to use this lame stunt. If I am paying to see these things, why in the world should I be excepted to stare a STARZ logo during the show?

The only clear screen anymore seems to be when a commercial comes on. Apparently the advertiser's will not tolerate something that the station operators demand that we do. When you have a comical break, you can always flip channels, leave the room, or at least mute the stupid thing. But how do you ignore something as intrusive as a full time station logo burning into your screen?

So the question becomes what can we, John Q Public, do about it? Can we file complaints with the FCC? What about our congressional representatives? I am afraid sending individual letters to the stations would be like peeing in the wind, nobody would listen. What we need is exposure. We need to make this a hot topic on the net. We need to bitch loud and hard until someone realizes that this one issue can be enough to change our mind about watching their channel.

How about some examples? Lets rate these guys with :) or :( for the stations policy on using this terribly intrusive advertising ploy.

I'll start with:
WB11 :(
watermark, too high on screen, lasting too long
TBS :(:(:(
watermark, too high on screen, lasting too long, does anyone really care it is a superstition.
CNN news :(
Thank god for big screens or you would not be able to see the news being talked about
TECHTV :(:(
watermark, too high on screen, lasting too long, text AND LOGO give me a break
Discover health :(:(:(
watermark, too high on screen, lasting too long, text, LOGO, AND a spinning globe just shoot me...

Any others that got your attention???
-JRO

This message was edited by jrolmstd on 02/09/02 23:58.34.
Post 2 made on Sunday February 10, 2002 at 12:17
Mike Riley
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620
I agree: they have to go. It is an annoying and personally intrusive methodology. Bad enough they get to do split screens, advertising the next show while the credits are on, PLUS a voice-over for some other show.

There still exists a law limiting the number of minutes per hour that a network can advertise, although I don't know what the max is now... it sure is a lot higher than it was, 20 years ago. The public used to be notified of changes coming; now they just "appear". Too much successful lobbying on the part of the networks. AND the specialty channels, which is a pay-to-use setup, do the same crap.

We've seen enough. The corner-logos are intensifying and disgusting and, as you say, growing ever larger. One of our channels here has the logo explode with fireworks, which totally pulls you away from your show and fills up an ever larger chunk of the screen.

We need a hero. ... Mike
OP | Post 3 made on Sunday February 10, 2002 at 15:33
jrolmstd
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Thanks for the feed back Mike. Who is the station with the fireworks? I haven't seen that one yet. We need to get the names of the worst offenders out here so the whole world can see how the stations ego takes precedent over their customers needs....

-JRO
Post 4 made on Sunday February 10, 2002 at 16:28
John Pechulis
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This is one of the reasons I won't watch anything on TNN.

They have a whole bar that runs across the bottom of the screen with their logo, what's playing, and the coming attractions. And it also squashes the picture above it slightly, but noticeable.

I am in the HT industry, and know for a fact that TNN's and MTV's logo's, because of the relatively high contrast, WILL burn into the picture. Whether it be a rear-pro, CRT, or plasma. I have had a few client's in which this has happened.

I have personally edited those, and many more channels, out of my Directv channel lineup in my receiver options. I don't want soneone to inadvertantly leave one of those channels on for a while when I'm not around.

Even at cost, the equipment I own is expensive, and I don't want to have to replace ANY of it due to someone's get-rich marketing schemes.

Just my 2 cents.


JJP

This message was edited by John Pechulis on 02/10/02 16:31.00.
Post 5 made on Tuesday February 12, 2002 at 20:02
Philip Cote
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I agree totally with all of you. I too, have been concerned with burn in on my equipment and I'll be the first to sign that petition. Soooo.....
"What's a mother to do?"
OP | Post 6 made on Tuesday February 12, 2002 at 22:18
jrolmstd
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What's a mother to do... that is the question. I wonder if stations are truly limited to the amount of commercials that they have in a hour and why these obnoxious banner/logo ads are not counted in? It would seem to me they are just another form of a commercial that happens to advertise the station instead of some third party. Who regulates the stations anyway? Is it the FCC or some other governing body. Is there really a limit on how much advertising a station can do in one hour?

Lets see if we can find out the details on this first. If we can come up with angle, then a petition is not a bad idea. We could start it here, post references to it on other forums, and see what develops.

If someone "knows" what type of guidelines are in place to control commercial time on TV, please either post it or link it.

Thanks
jrolmstd

This message was edited by jrolmstd on 02/12/02 22:27.30.
Post 7 made on Tuesday February 12, 2002 at 22:52
Larry Fine
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This is not - I repeat - not in defense of the banner and/or logo meisters:

I believe the (original) reason the stations post the overlays is so recordings of shows can not be re-broadcast, or perhaps, re-sold without the viewer knowing the origination of the programming.

I will be happy to sign or otherwise support any movement to ban or limit said obnoxiousness.

Larry
www.fineelectricco.com
Post 8 made on Wednesday February 13, 2002 at 09:14
Mike Riley
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JRO: I'm in Canada; the station is actually a network called Global. They also own and operate several specialty channels, that use even bigger logos.

The Canadian Radio and Television Commission (CRTC) is the governing body in Canada, populated by a number of appointees. For years they followed on the coat-tails of American decisions, but with a strong eye toward preserving our Canadian identity (which in the '70s meant we had a lot of really crappy music on the radio, but in the end also created a real venue for talent in this country... I won't go into the merits of being able to boast about Celine Dion, or Shania Twain... ). Now they are quite different about programming, but we never hear much about the "rules" governing advertising, other than cross-border ads are replaced by Canadian ads when the same program is running simultaneously in Canada and the States.

I should be able to find some information beginning with their website.

Larry: the offical reason from the networks is that in an ever-expanding sea of channels, coupled with VCR-delayed viewing, it's the only way people will know what channel they are watching. Like we care. ... Mike
Post 9 made on Wednesday February 13, 2002 at 14:07
Anthony
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other than cross-border ads are replaced by Canadian
ads when the same program is running

just to clarify to none Canadians. that only happens on cable. And it is not the adds that are replaced but the whole show. So if Global has the same show as NBC playing at the same time, then your cable provider must show Global's broadcasting instead of NBC's. This way you see the Canadian adds and the broadcaster can ask more for them (since you cannot get away from the ad by watching the US broadcast).

This rule does not bother me. But I sure hate some of the CRTC's decisions.

As for the logos. The other day I switched to ABC, and they had a full color opaque logo on the screen, I found it very distracting and annoying. I don't mind if they go back to the small translucent icons, (like a watermark) but this was ridiculous.


...
OP | Post 10 made on Wednesday February 13, 2002 at 22:26
jrolmstd
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You are right in your observation Anthony that things are getting worse not better. That's what finally got me to start this thread. The Canadian issues also brings out a good point. We truly are diversified in what we see on television.

Like many others, I was assuming that my TV shows are being broadcast from somewhere out in Gumbyland US of A. Obviously, this may or may not be the case. The notion that other countries allow station identification in the form of these obnoxious banner ads would seem to complicate things somewhat... Could our home countries dictate to broadcasters of other nations on the use of banner ads? It would seem they do just that in other issues. For example, things that get past one countries censers, can be edited or banded in another country.

Mike, thanks for the offer to follow up on the Canadian issues. It will be interesting to see what you find out.

We have a number of posts now supporting the idea that this flagrant misuse of our television real estate needs to change, but no real course of action. I personally like the idea of some type of internet petition and then trying to bring Internet traffic to it (posts on other message boards for example). Would someone like to take a stab at a rough draft of how it should be composed? If so please post it, and ask for feedback. Lets see what can be worked out. We also still need some feed back on who controls advertising in the US. Someone out there must know....

Thanks again to all who have posted or at least read the thread....

JRO
OP | Post 11 made on Wednesday February 13, 2002 at 23:38
jrolmstd
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From the FCC web site....

"Amount of Advertising. Except with respect to children's programming, no federal law or regulation limits the amount of commercial matter that may be broadcast at any given time. In television programs aimed at children 12 and under, advertising may not exceed 10.5 minutes an hour on weekends and 12 minutes an hour on weekdays."

"Offensive Advertising. Unless a broadcast advertisement is found to be in violation of a specific law or regulation, no governmental action can be taken against it. Complaints that advertising is offensive because of the kind of item advertised, the scheduling of the announcement or the way the message is presented, should in most instances be addressed directly to the stations and networks involved, so that they may become better informed about audience opinion on such material."

Other interesting stuff --- [Link: fcc.gov]


Oh well...
-JRO

This message was edited by jrolmstd on 02/14/02 00:31.52.
Post 12 made on Thursday February 14, 2002 at 12:56
Phil Cote
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44
"If you don't like what's on the TV, change the channel!"
I think that is the way the saying goes.
I suppose the only way to get the networks to pay attention to our gripe is to apply pressure to the advertisers.
After all, that (advertising) is their (the networks) bread and butter.
Post 13 made on Thursday February 14, 2002 at 13:49
Anthony
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28,867
CRTC on logos
[Link: crtc.gc.ca]

CRTC on signal substitution
[Link: crtc.gc.ca]

I found those links looking for info on ad space, but I could not find it. I think advertisements in children shows are banned (here in Canada). I think there is a limit for all shows, but I don't know what it is.
...
OP | Post 14 made on Friday February 15, 2002 at 19:07
jrolmstd
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I agree completely Phil about changing the channel, but when ALL the channels are do this to one degree or another it makes it hard to justify that $70.00 dish bill if I do not watch anything. Guess I could switch to 100% DVD viewing but no, they are now inserting commercials that you can not skip past.

It seems like the same people that are overly paranoid about their intellectual copy rights have no problems stealing from our personal time or the quality of our viewing experience.

I am now starting to think what we need is a technology tool to fight their techno terrorism. Something that could inspect a video signal for a predefined set of images (logo trash) and remove it from the feed in real time. It would be interesting to know if these intrusions into our reception is "layered" or if it replaces the original signal. If it's layered, then I would think it could be peeled away much like peeling an onion.

With the explosion of HTPC (PCs for Home Theater) I would not think this is beyond the realm possibilities. A nice user interface where a person could import logo images (think pronto) to update the system with and we would be ready to go.

This could be a killer app....

JRO

I stand corrected...

This message was edited by jrolmstd on 02/16/02 01:03.19.
Post 15 made on Friday February 15, 2002 at 23:37
Anthony
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With the explosion of PCHT (PCs for Home Theater)

the accepted acronym is HTPC
...
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