im relatively new to this whole surround sound thing, so i apoligize in advance for any stupid things i say :)
i currently have a 5.1 speaker set-up from yamaha, and i was wondering, since my reciever has two main speaker outputs (A, and B) could i possibly add two more speakers to the setup. I've already connected some old stereo speakers, and it's worked, but where would be the best placement for these new speakers be?

right now, i have two main speakers about 2 feet from either side of the TV, being supported on shelves. A subwoofer next to the right main speaker, and two rear speakers about 6.5 feet from the ground off to the side behind me at different distances (about a metre away). I guess my main question is would it be wise to add the two new speakers, and if so, where should the placement be? and also, what is the best way to place my current system?

Oh, and if anyone has an extra universal remote for an HTR-5450 yamaha Reviever, please email me at blinkythepig@hotmail.com

thanks alot guys, and im sorry for the vaugeness of the question :)

Well, Blinky, I'm not a surround expert, but I doubt adding speakers to an existing 5.1 system would have any good effect. Most likely it would just smear the soundstage. You could try them for the rear surrounds of a 7.1 system, but then you need more electronics.

well would it matter that the speakers would be connected to Main B while the existing ones are connected to Main A.
The manual says that B can be used for a second main speaker system.
and there's a button selection on the front display that can choose between A and B?

No...I would definatly NOT use them for additional fronts. Normally they would be used in another room in the house for stereo sound.

If you were to hook them up and use them as additional fronts, you would really ruin the effect of the 5.1 system.

ok thanks man :)
sorry if i come off as a newbie at this kind of thing, but it's really interesting, and im just trying to understand everything

blinky,

Any speakers you attach to Main B would only be carrying the same front channels that Main A do. If you also listen to music, these can come in handy because the "ideal" :) location for the main front speakers is not the same for music as for home theater. So, you could set up "A" pair at the best locations for theater and "B" pair at the best for music... I would not use both pairs at the same time, for the reasons outlined by tweakman.

-Bruce

nice, and where would the ideal location for music speakers be?

On most receivers turning on speakers B turns off surround modes,so as Bruce said the speakers B outputs are meant for music speakers. These are usually better quality and better placed speakers. There are two approaches to speaker placement. 1) If you are married, put the speakers where she says they belong! 2) Place the speakers in a triangle configuration to the listening position. That is an equal distance from each speaker to the listener and from one speaker to the other.

How would that differ from the home theater placement?!

In a home theater system the front left and right speakers are effects speakers just like the surrounds. Ideally they should be placed at the same level as the center channel speaker for left to right / right to left pan effects. In a home theater system the center channel speaker carries about 80% of the information (depending on the source material). In a music system the speaker pair carry 100%.

Was curious about all this so tested out on my Sony DA333ES.

According to the manual the B speakers connections output the same sound as the rear surrounds when the speaker switch (it is a knob that turns with the possibilities being: A, B, AB, OFF) is set to AB. So connected a couple extra speakers I had to the B connections and set the speaker selection switch to AB. Popped in A Knights Tale (Dolby Digital) and "VIOLA!" My test Left and Right Side speakers output is the same as the rears... AND the surround sound processor is still working.. i.e. having the speaker switch on AB did not defeat DD processing... Sounds pretty good too especially when tested with a movie such as Terminator 2!

Well, the placement for front left and right speakers for HT and stereo don't have any differences...

Blinky, Matt:

As mentioned by dvpa59 in his post above, for ideal music listening the main speakers should be placed to form a triangle with the listening position. In other words, the distance between the left and right speaker should be identical to the distance from either speaker to the listener. If you were positioned in the center of a 360 degree circle, each speaker would be approximately 60 degrees to each side of the center front.

The speakers should be horizontally oriented to fire straight forward into the room. They should be positioned vertically so that the tweeters are the same height above the floor as the listener's ears.

Not so for Home Theater. Here, the three front speakers (Left, Center, Right) should be arranged in an arc. Each of the three should be the same distance from the listener, and the main speakers should be turned inward to fire directly at the listening position.

The length of the arc (distance between the three speakers) is a function of the room's acoustics: The intent is for the main Left and Right speaker to expand the front sound stage, without making the sound effects sound unrealistically too far left or right of the action visible on the screen. In practice, this usually means the best placement for HT main speakers is closer together than the "triangle" placement for music speakers, often about 45 degrees to each side. Try starting with the speakers next to the TV while watching a source that has action "panning" off screen to left and right, then gradually move the speakers further away from the center until just before the "pan" no longer sounds realistic. The speakers should not be so far apart that the off-screen action you hear through them distracts you from the action on the screen.

As with music placement, all three HT front speakers should ideally be positioned so that the tweeters are the same height above the floor as the listener's ears. Of course this is usually not possible for the center speaker because the TV screen is in the way -- the most common alternative is to position the center speaker above the screen, and angle it downward until it is firing directly at the listener's position. The bottom front edge of the speaker should be as close to the front edge of the TV as possible, to avoid reflecting any sound off the set.

Hope this helps. -Bruce

This message was edited by Bruce Burson on 01/26/02 21:49.04.

All the arc does is make the arrival time of the sound 'wave' reach your ear at the same time. If you have an external device to do this then your setup is less 'strict'

And Toe in of speakers is by manufacturer recomendation dependant upon the driver array and how close you are in the direct field. All toeing in of speakers does is make your listening area more in the direct field than the reverberant field.

Toeing in HT speakers really tightens up your sweet spot and it's really hard to to a larger room and get good sound everywhere when you do this. And I guess all the omnipolar speakers out there kinda make toeing in useless anyway.

Matt,

Exactly right. The main intent of HT speaker positioning is to minimize the impact of room acoustics, as you put it "to make the listening area more in the direct field than the reverberant field." And, as you mentioned, to tightly focus the sweet spot in a specific listening area. Ideally, to suck the listener into becoming totally absorbed in the story almost as a participant.

By the same token, many audiophiles complain that THX certified speakers sound "lifeless" when reproducing music, because they are deliberately designed not to colour the tones in an attempt to closely replicate the original soundtrack.

When listening to music on the other hand, the intent is often to expand the sound field, even to deliberately introduce ambiance effects through reverberation/delay (DSP, for example). Also, you usually want to expand the sweet spot as much as practical, because people often don't stay in one spot during music listening the way they do when watching a movie.

Additionally, many music speakers are designed to produce an artificially "warm" coloured tone, to overcome the perceptions of those who believe that digital music and/or solid-state amplifiers "cool" the original sounds. And, rather than being a participant, the intent is more often to induce the feeling that the listener is in the audience at a concert hall.

So there are a number of reasons someone might want both "A" and "B" main speakers, in different locations. And if you REALLY want to go to extremes, check out some of the top Denon receivers. They even have "B" switches for the rear surround speakers, so you can position a set of REAR music speakers differently from your HT surrounds... Grab one of their brochures for some interesting diagrams of how they recommend you position your "A" (HT) and "B" (music) speakers in both front and rear. Let's see: 7.1 for HT, plus four more for music -- my spouse would not be amused :)

-Bruce