Hi,

One of the threads below was concerned with options for controlling system component on/off commands. I have taken a different approach to component status control that I will discuss below. I also wanted to start a new thread to discuss Pronto configuration in general.

One User tip that Daniel provided on the Remote Central Pronto main page was the option to assign a macro to each device rather than a single command. I have used this option for all of my components.

I have setup the following Pronto devices as for my system as follows:

1. "Watch TV" - Using an embedded macro, selecting this device from either the Pronto Home Page or the Device pulldown menu, switches my surround receiver to the correct source (in my case, a JVC VCR), switched to the correct surround sound mode. The device template for "Watch TV" is a numeric keypad to control direct channel inputs for the JVC VCR. Of course, the hard channel buttons also control the JVC VCR and Hard volume controls the surround receiver.

2. "JVC VCR" - Same as watch TV except the first template is for transport controls. Template 2 is a numeric keypad. Template 3 is for VCR programming function. Template 4 is for Index searching.

3. "PanVCR" - Same as "JVC VCR" except it controls a Panasonic VCR.

4. "Satilite" - Same as "Watch TV" except the source is the DBS receiver. First device template has the standard satilite controls (up, down, left, right, of, guide, display, and exit). Other templates are used for the keypad and other functions.

I set up additional "Devices" in a similar fashion for each basic function I want to control (Laser disc, Radio, etc.)

By using the embedded macros, each device button acts like a macro to do all the system switching for that device. Thus, I am free to use the Pronto macro groups to do more than just source switching. My Macro groups have been named and arranged as follows:

1. Power
a. System On - This macro turns on ALL components normally used (two VCRs, Satilite receiver, surround receiver, TV; It does not turn on my Laser disc player as I use it less frequently). Last macro command sends Pronto to the "Watch TV" device templates.
b. System Off - Just the reverse but it leaves Pronto at the Macros screen. This way, when I pick up Pronto for the next session, it is already at the power macro group.

By the way, this concept works very well. I have all system components (except for the TV) located in a closet behind closed doors and, consequently, I can not see the individual components to know which ones are "on" and which ones are "off." Controlling system power in this way (all-on or all-off) prevents the out-of-sync concerns others have noted without resorting to the more expensive system controllers. In case anyone was wondering, I have a infrared remote repeater inside the closet to repeat IR commands received by an IR eye mounted in a wall (like a light switch) near the TV. It's made by Sonance and cost about $150 USD. The closet also required ventillation to remove heat. A Panasonic bathroom fan provided the perfect solution at about $145 USD.)

1. Surfing -
One Macro button for each channel. For example, pressing a button labeled "The SciFi Channel" will switch the surround receiver to the correct source, enter 2,5,4 on the satilite device, and instruct Pronto to remain on the macro page. This way, pressing each different macro channel button (equivalent to about 5 or 6 individual key strokes) will bring up the corresponding channel with Pronto ready to surf to the next channel. 25 channels can be programmed this way per macro group. If you have more than 25 favorite channels, add more surfing macro groups (surfing 1, surfing 2, etc.)

2. Music -
Same as the surfing macro group except the channels are for DBS music channels.

Desired Enhancements:

Others have commented on how Pronto could be improved further so I won't repeat their comments here. Instead, I will add a few of my own:

1. Currently each macro group will display five full width buttons only which creates a limitation for my "surfing" macro group described above. While surfing, if I want to display the DBS program information, I must switch to the satilite device templates to access the "display" DBS function. It would be better if each macro group had an option to have a few (part-width) buttons that would be present on each page of a given macro group. This would allow the user to program these extra buttons for device specific commands.

2. The device list can be modified by using the "move" command on the menu screen. It would be nice if the macros could be moved up or down in their respective groups (or between groups for that matter).

3. Some device template pages have labels that are not assigned to buttons (no black boarder). It would be nice if similar labels could be added to each template to allow clearer markings for functional groups. For example, except for the play button, tape transport buttons are too small for word labels inside the button area. Adding a functional label to a group of buttons could keep the buttons small, but provide better markings for other Pronto users (i.e., spouses, guests, etc.).

Clay W.

I appreciate your giving us a real world explanation of usage and programming.

Just one comment, why on earth is it that these "Remote" designers have to treat macros as anything special. It would be nice if any button on a template could be a macro. Why have "macro groups at all". All buttons should be macro capable.

It seems you've used the "Macro" pages as some of your main activity pages and now wish "Macro" pages left some room for "normal" buttons. I agree, you can think of it the other way around as well. Why not allow macro's on the template pages and get rid of the silly "macro groups".

Apparently talking to Take Control folks the Take Control does not "specialize macros". The hardware sounds nicer on the Pronto (Backlight and Charger) but I think it's this special treatment of macros that will swing me towards the take control.

It sounds like Softare Engineers designed the Take Control and Hardware Engineers designed the Pronto :-)

Sorry to ramble on about but it seems such a shame to have these restrictions. Perhaps the Pronto can be changed in software in the future.

I wouldn't count Pronto out just yet. The software that I've heard about will be really quite powerful and provide a level of flexibility previously (and currently) unavaliable. Sometimes those who wait benefit from the waiting period.
I can't elaborate at the moment, suffice it to say that when I have teh software later this week, and start feeding back additional info from this site, I believe that Pronto's will reign without question. Philips PDEG is a very capable group of individuals and I don't think they will be outdone.

I have a tough configuration question.

I have a DVD player that has the S-video out going through my receiver and then via S-video to my TV.

My VCR, which has the cable TV hooked to it, is routed to my TV via composite video.

My TV remote has a video button that allows me to cycle from video 1 to 2 to 3 and then back to 1. Video 1 is the S-video, video 2 is the composite for my VCR out, and video 3 is nothing.

If I have a button on my pronto remote labeled DVD I would like it to be able to select video 1 on the TV but all I can do is cycle. If it is on video 2 and I cycle twice I am in the right spot. If I am already watching a DVD though and somebody accidently hits this same macro, it cycles twice and I end up on video 3 which will not work.

Any suggestions?

Dave H

Hi,
Here is a thought for *mode management*...

Lacking sufficient source inputs on my Yamaha surround processor, I use the *Line 1* input on a panasonic VCR for Satailte source input. To watch the Satailte, I must select the Panasonic VCR for *source* and then ensure the VCR input is set for *Line 1.* The problem with this method is that after using this same VCR for Terrestrial broadcast timer recording, the VCR tuner remains on the last channel used. Hence after timer recording, it remains set on Channel 5 (or whatever). The only remote code I have for controlling the VCR input selection is to toggle through *Line 1*, Line 2*, and *normal channels* and if I don't know what the VCR is tuned to, I don't know how to toggle through the inputs correctly.

I devised two options for toggling back to the normal *line 1* input for this VCR.

1. Since the VCR remains on the last channel used while timer recording, I could always program the VCR to record 1 minute of a satalite program after recording a terrestrial broadcast (During VCR set-up, I programmed the VCR to know satalite channels are on Line 1). This would automatically ensure the VCR is always set to Line 1 after timer recording.

This could be done through a pronto macro (if the same channel and time are routinly recorded), or likewise program weekly (recurring) timer record periods with the 1 minute Satalite record preprogrammed.

2. I noticed that if the VCR is on a normal channel (2,4,5, etc.), when the VCR input selector is used, it always defaults to Line 1 first (starts the toggle at Line 1). Thus, if you don't know which input is active on the VCR (line 1, line 2, or normal channels), macro commands could be programmed to always change the VCR channel to a normal channel (e.g., channel 5), and then press the VCR *input* command once. This will always ensure the VCR always ends up at Line 1 when needed.

Long explaination, but maybe there is a similar work-around for your TV video source selector. Another option of course, is to feed all of your video sources through a common component (surround processor) and then use a single video input for your TV (which is what I do).

Hope this helps.

Clay W.

Dave,

I had a similar problem with my TV and "solved" it by using the second suggestion by Clay. In the macro I would input a specific channel number for the TV (i.e. 02). This would put the TV in the Video 0 mode. From there the macro would simply hit the video mode button once to always put it into the Video 1 mode. It's a clumsy way to resolve the problem, but it has worked fine for me so far.

Scott

There is one other piece to the puzzle that I failed to mention. My Denon receiver which all my video runs through can only route video in from S-video source to video out via S-video. Likewise, composite video in via a VCR can only be routed to composite out, not to S-video out.

I am thinking my best solution is to ditch cable TV, get a dish, and then all the video signals get routed via S-video. This way I can leave my TV set to the right video source (video 1) all the time.

Dave

Well, for reference here's how mine works:

TURN SYSTEM ON
1) Switch Receiver directly ON to Video 1
2) Switch VCR ON
3) Switch TV ON

TURN SYSTEM OFF
1) Switch TV OFF
2) Switch VCR OFF
3) Toggle Receiver OFF

WATCH A DVD
1) Toggle DVD Player ON
2) Switch Receiver to DVD
3) Toggle TV Input from VIDEO2 to TUNER
4) Toggle TV Input from TUNER to VIDEO1 (SVID)

RETURN FROM DVD
1) Switch Receiver to VIDEO1
2) Toggle TV Input from VIDEO1 to VIDEO2
3) Toggle DVD Player OFF

All extremely simple, but that's because most other items are automatic such as selecting 5.1 input, soundfields, etc. As you can see, my TV can only cycle through TUNER-VIDEO1-VIDEO2, so I had to work around that.

Everything works great, and it saves a lot of time. What happens if someone plays the wrong macro at the wrong time? Well, they'll have to manually put things back. There's no way to make something 100% foolproof. I could probably have many other macros, but they'd only have two commands all in the same device. So I don't bother.

Not really wanting to spend your money for you, I suggest you get a Tributaries C2S or C2S+ composite to "S" video convertor unit to convert your VCR to "S" and route the output through your receiver. This would also then presumably give you the on screen displays via the receiver.

I just got my Pronto yesterday. Yea!

I have a similar problem to what Dave describes above. My PreAmp can't mix S-Video and composite.

As suggested above I tried a Tributaries C2S cable last year, but I got unacceptable chroma smearing from the VHS playback. So I went back to using the TV as the video source switcher.

I have previously been using a Marantz RC2000 MKI (which has a plenty of room for improvement) and had programmed some macros like those above to deterministically set the TV's video input selection. This works ok except it's a little slow and there's some video flashing when switching to the TV tuner and then away to another source.

Now I've got a two S-Video sources and my TV only has one S-Video input. So I've got to rethink the problem. Hopefully the Proto's additional flexibility will give me some new options for making this stuff act like it all works together.

I do feel sorry for you guys. The one thing we seem to have got right in Europe is the SCART or Euroconnector. This is a rectangular 21 pin plug and socket, that can do stereo audio, composite, S-video, and RGB (we use this instead of YUV). These cables are bidirectional, and have two additional pins. One pin will switch the TV to that output, and the other does widescreen mode switching.

So if I play a DVD, press play on the VCR, or turn on DBS, the TV automatically switches to the correct input!

For details of the connector see [Link: bbc.co.uk]

George,

I cannot comment on software yet, but I can assure you that a Pronto configuration does not distinguish between macro and non-macro buttons. As I said before in this forum, every button or hard key can be assigned a macro. Be a little patient and don't go out and buy that Take Control just yet...

Regards,

Jan

Patients does pay off and I admit when it comes to toys near XMAS time I have way to little.

Either I'm stupid, or it's just hard to explain how the Pronto's do there thing.

But what is a "Macro Group" for?
Why do "Macro Groups" need to exist?

By there description it sounds like, to execute a
macro you have to jump to the "Macro Group" page (which may be specific to the device your using) and then select the macro (1 of 5 big buttons) you want to execute. If this is not the case please correct me. Also if it's not the case I'm confused as to the purpose of "Macro Groups".

Going back to the base note by Clay, why not use a new "Device" and the most suitable Template for his "Surfing, Music and Power" pages. He would have more than 5 buttons (more than 5 Macros) as he desired.

Sorry if I misunderstand. The dealers in my area are still saying what's a Pronto. I'd be happy to order a Pronto from Jack or try ordering a Take Control again from shop4.com if I'm confident I understand each units capabilities (which it certainly sounds like I don't).

If the restrictions I feel that exist today are going to change soon, then ok I'll wait.

If the restrictions I feel that exist today are wrong PLEASE correct me and explain.

By the way I just learned from an IRIQ user that you can assign up to 24 different standard bitmaps to EACH button. So you basically have unlimited templates (no need for templates). The only restriction is buttons are placed on the 4x5 grid and a button can't extend beyond it's "cell" (no double width etc.).

By there description it sounds like, to execute a macro you have to jump to the "Macro Group" page (which may be specific to the device your using) and then select the macro (1 of 5 big buttons) you want to execute...

Actually, think of "groups" as directories on your hard drive, which can hold up to 25 macros, or "files". Each page lists 5 macros, so there's a total of 5 pages of 5 macros in each macro group.

The macro section isn't tied to any particular component, so whenever you access it it's at the same page you last left it at. You don't have to select a group each time you use it.

Why do Macro Groups exist? Because if you happen to have a LOT of macros (let's say 50), scrolling from page 1 to page 10 is going to take a long time. So to make it quicker and more orderly, groups exist so you can sort macros by purpose, device, whatever. Me, I only have a few macros so I have no need for groups.

Many of the custom templates people are looking for (say one with all volume levels) will be possible with the PC software. Why is the software "late" in comparison to the remote? Possibly because they wern't planning on including it, but then they saw what HK was going to do they decided it was required. Or, perhaps they concentrated all their time on the hardware, since they wanted it out in time for Christmas, and the software got pushed to the end.

George,

You appear to confuse Take Control's bitmaps with Pronto's templates. They are very different. I played a little bit with Take Control's software and as far as I can tell the 24 bitmaps you refer to are comparable to the symbols included in the Pronto font. The Pronto font contains 48 different symbols which are all accessible using the Pronto's on screen keyboard. When you label a button, device or macro group, you can mix one or more of these symbols with any of the available alpha numeric characters. All this can be done on the Pronto (no PC required).

A Pronto template defines the panels of a single device type (if I remember correctly the Pronto holds 17 different templates, each consisting of a number of panels). Each of these panels contains a number of buttons, some large, some small, some with a label (which can be changed), some without a label because we didn't have a function for them yet. You can assign each of these buttons your own label consisting of one or more of the aforementioned 48 symbols and any of the available alpha numeric characters. Take Control's 4 x 5 grid is comparable to a single Pronto template panel.

Macro groups exist to add structure to the Pronto's user interface. We wanted a separate place for macros to make a clear distinction between device oriented controls and task oriented controls, which is what macros are. Macro groups are essentially the same as devices, but the Pronto UI distinguishes the two by putting them in separate menus, and by only allowing the action lists attached to macro group buttons to be edited on the Pronto. This is why macro group buttons appear to be very different from device buttons, where in fact they are very much the same.

Again, I cannot comment on software yet, but to give you a feel for the flexibility of the Pronto: the layouts of all panels (macro group panels, 'real' device panels, template panels and home panels) including the used bitmaps are all defined in a Pronto configuration file which can be downloaded into a Pronto.

Oh, and I'm a software engineer...

Regards,

Jan