The below thread is communication I just had with Pioneer customer DIService.

---------------------------Start

I spoke with the operations department for the VSX-D914 to get
some IR codes for my Pronto remote. They directed me to submit a
request through this forum so it could be routed to engineering.
The Pronto lets me enter direct IR codes from my computer. I can not
learn these through the remote because even though it can broadcast on
higher frequencies, it can only learn from a more narrow spectrum.
Also, since this system is so new, I can not find the codes online. The
only buttons I
need are under the Receiver Controls section of the XXD3070 Pioneer
remote that came with my system. The buttons are labeled "STANDARD",
"ADV.SURR", "STEREO", and "MIDNIGHT/LOUDNESS".

Thanks,

njustus7

---------------------- Their reply

customer.support@pioneerservice.com wrote:

Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.

Mr. Njustus7,

For the codes programmed into the Pronto remote you will need to talk
with the company that makes the remote. In this case I believe it would
be Phillips.
Also you may want to check out remotecentral.com
You may find your answer there.

Thank you.

---------------------- My Response

I did contact them and look on the remotecentral web site and even
posted two requests. These are not Philips codes they are Pioneer IR codes
that I can plug into the Pronto remote. The engineering dept
has them and I have been made aware by both Pioneer and Philips agents
that this is information you have provided in the past to requesting
customers.

Thanks,

njustus7

-----------------------Their Reply

customer.support@pioneerservice.com wrote:

Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.
Unfortunately we do not have the IR codes needed for you to enter into
a Phillips Pronto remote control. These IR codes are normally provided
by the manufacturer of the Universal Remote.

----------------My Response

It may just need some clarification. The remote I use does not have
specific codes, it uses the the actual binary. For example

"ON" is 900D 006D 0000 0002 A55A 1AE5 A55A 1AE5

I have this because it is a Pioneer discrete code posted on
remotecentral.com. The remote in question does not use Philips based dicreete
codes. It uses the codes Pioneer supplies and that Pioneer remotes
use. Being an owner of the Pioneer reciever, I'd like engineering to
provide me the discreete codes they use for Pioneer remotes for the four
below mentioned buttons.

If you just forward my request to engineering, they will know *EXACTLY*
what I need.

Thanks,

njustus7

----------------Their Final Reply

Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.
Unfortunately we do not give out discreet codes for any of our
products.

Were the receiver mine, I would return it and purchase a brand which DOES provide discreets and DOES NOT blow you off in their tech support department.

Unfortunately, this is a common response that is shared by more than just Pioneer. Most manufacturers do not release their discrete codes.

CJ

Yeah, CJ's right. That's why a company like UEI can compile a database of codes (like the one in the 2000) and make money licensing it's use to the makers of universal remotes.

Jim L

Marantz does as do several others... with my sister being in the market for a TV (poor market 'cause we have to work for our money - no Marantz plasma for her), I won't let her buy one unless I can find the discreet codes for it.

Okay, I'm keeping this to one forum. (took a hint from multiple postings). Here's the reply I received back from Philips, it's put much nicer but still spells out to S.O.L.

Dear Njustus7,

Thank you for your enquiry.

The whole problem in this case is with the conversion of a Pioneer HEX
code into a valid Pronto HEX code. Both codes contain information only
the interpreter in the actual remote understands and can convert into a
valid Ir code. In order to make a Pioneer code compatible to a Pronto
one, you need the Pioneer command set, as well as you need to know how a
Pronto HEX code is set up. And this is only theoretical, as in practice
(and you know that from experience) it is almost impossible to get the
commandset or an explanation of the HEX interpreter from a hifi
manufacturer. So I am sorry to tell you that if Pioneer cannot provide you
with correct information, it is impossible for us to point you in a
direction for getting information on how to convert the different codes.

Kind regards,
Philips Pronto/URC European helpdesk

The Philips helpdesk is clearly overstating the dificulting of understanding various manufacturers' hex encodings and translating them to Pronto Hex.

It isn't trivial, but it also isn't all that hard. Unexplained manufacturers' hex in all sorts of strange forms has been posted here and I can't remember a case in which we couldn't quickly figure out what it meant and how to convert to Pronto Hex.

The problems are in whether the discrete command you want exists at all and whether they'll tell it to you in any form. So the phrase about "get the commandset" is the only thing I'd agree with in the above.

Why do you think the commands you want are high frequency?


That looks like a perfectly ordinary Pioneer command and is NOT high frequency.

That was just an example of a discrete code that I got off of this web site that was then "translated" into Pronto HEX. That one works, but the discrete code for LOUDNESS from the same source does not work.

I was guessing that since this button doesn't work that Pioneer must have reworked some of their buttons on the newer VSX-D812K and 912K to use high frequency, but it's only a guess.

Here is the Discrete code posted on remote central for the Pioneer LOUDNESS button that does not work (even though the Discrete posted for power does)

0000 006d 0000 0022 0155 00ac 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0594

Here is what the Pronto simplifies or interprets

900B 006D 0000 0001 A55A 44BB

And here is what my Pronto remote learned from the Pioneer remote.

0000 0063 0000 0044 0161 00B2 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0423 0161 00B2 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0423

Does this last one look like it's high frequency?

None of them work, and I've tried getting the code off older Pioneer receivers from Pronto configuration files without success.

Pioneer IR protocol is not "high frequency", but it is a slightly higher frequency than NEC2 protocol and some Pioneer signals look just like NEC2 signals except for the frequency.

The signal you posted in both 0000 format and 900B format is an NEC2 signal, device 165, command 68. Because device 165 is common for Pioneer and not for NEC2, I would have guessed it was a Pioneer signal at the wrong frequency (rather than a true NEC2 signal) even if you hadn't told me we were talking about Pioneer.

We can construct a Pioneer version of that signal a couple different ways:
900D 0068 0000 0002 A55A 44BB A55A 44BB
or
0000 0068 0000 0022 0168 00B4 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 06D9

The second 0000 format signal you posted is a compound Pioneer signal (device 165, commands 159 and 203), but learned at an even higher frequency, but still not "high frequency" nor into any range hard for a Pronto to learn.

It's not immediately obvious to me why that command doesn't work. If your original remote had that command than I assume your receiver supports it.

I don't think the higher frequency is right, but I don't think it's the problem either. The NG model Prontos can have trouble with the gap in the middle of a compound command (I didn't notice your model number).

See what you get with this encoding of it:

900D 0068 0000 0002 A55A 9F60 A55A CB34

First off, thanks for taking the time to respond to my post, it's really appreciated. I have sent yet another email to Pioneer customer support asking if they will just tell me know what models use the same remote so I can do a little more searching.

Second, I have a TSU3000, and I know for shame for posting in the wrong forum. However no one has been willing and/or able to help me in the other forum.

Finally, the code you provided did not work but was rather translated into this

0000 0068 0044 0022 014E 00AB 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0040 0016 0040 0016 0040 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0564 014E 00AB 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0564 014E 00AB 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0040 0016 0040 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0564

Is it suppose to do that?

I don't have a complete understanding of the Pioneer compound signal structures (some other experts in the JP1 group may know more) and I have only guesses at what the 900D format of Pronto Hex is supposed to mean (beyond the fact that it is some kind of Pioneer compound signal). Eigeny Oulianov is probably the expert on that.

I'm not too surprised that 900D got converted into a compound Pioneer signal in 0000 format with the right device and command numbers. But it isn't the compound structure I thought it would be. That MIGHT be the reason it didn't work. But I still don't know why the one learned from the original remote didn't work.

Yesterday or the day before, I saw a link to a PDF on Pioneer's website that listed Pronto Hex codes for one of their Elite receivers. It's probable that other similar documents exist. I tried to search for it again-- I think the link had to be either here or over at avsforum. I was able to see the document, so I know it exists.

FWIW, there were a couple of codes that I had to learn from my Pioneer remote (VSX-D850). It took several tries to learn. I found the best results came when I held the remotes about four inches apart and used two hands to hold the Pioneer remote perfectly still (one hand holding the remote, the other pressing the button).


EDIT: Mea culpa-- the pdf about which I wrote was for a Hitachi monitor. My apologies.

Additionally, to the best of my knowlege, the only discretes that exist for Pioneer receivers are:
Power On
Power Off
Mute On
Mute Off
Input Sat/TV
Input DVD/LD
Input CD
Input MD/Tape1
Input VCR
Input VCR2
Tape Monitor
Loudness On (I haven't tried)
Loudness Off (I haven't tried)

There are no discretes for any of the soundfields. There may be a way to work around this by setting the receiver to 'Standard' which, I think, can be accomplished with a combination of the DD/DTS and DSP buttons on the original remote. Note that I haven't tried this as I haven't found the need to do so yet.

I don't believe that Pioneer has changed any of their IR frequencies or codes-- the non-programmable remote for my 10 year old Pro Logic receiver works very well with my current receiver. If you let me know the specific buttons/commands with which you are having trouble, I'll post the codes that're in my Pronto. Note that the discretes I have are the discretes that are already in the discrete section here.

This message was edited by GreySkies on 08/06/04 23:16.

Dont forget to mentioned the codes that I found for the power on/input select.

What they do is turn on the receiver, and select an input with one ir code.

Someone helped me clean them up though, and they are posted on this website as well.

Rob

Mea Culpa Redux-- that's right-- those are neat.