This goes back to the Beta/VHS clash.

The winner will be the one that is cheapest to mass produce, offloading the savings to the consumer in as quick a manner. So far HDDVD is poised for that.

I don't see how SONY has a chance. HDDVD uses the same factories and the "CORE" difference between the DVD and HDDVD is the laser.

We're waiting till SONY starts producing the HDDVD players then jumping in.

agree


disagree

the one that will win is the one that gains market share fastest, and it is much more likely to happen with BD


HD-DVD is way closer to BD then DVD on the player front. On the disk side it is closer to DVD, but then again the price difference (replication) is minimal compared to street price. That is why they have the same MRSP and the street price does not seem to be different

The facts are there and anyone that has done his homework knows that the Blue Ray is way more costly to produce (if you can't concede that then...) As a result the "MASSES" will determine the winner, not the hobbyists. That being said it's all about the Benjamin’s (money that is).

As mentioned before, the existing DVD factories can produce HD DVD with very little change and very little manufacturing upgrades cost . Blue Ray manufacturing requirements are significantly more costly.

Just looking at the fact that it will take upwards of $600+ to produce the SONY PS3 due to the Blue Ray laser cost, which (by the way) happens to be the reason why they failed to launch this spring.

I like SONY but they have a screwed up pre 911 philosophy that beleives proprietary protocols ensures success. Just look at DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD+-RW. They wound up adopting all formats. Go figure.

HDDVD in my opinion will be here for the long run. That doesn't mean I don't think that Blue Ray won't materialize. I think that SONY will do what they did with the DVD format and produce a system that supports both that will be owned by few -wait a sec, this is way off topic.

I'll wait a little while till the price drops before I buy my Toshiba!

according to CINRAM one of the biggest replicators the difference is less then 500k$ in equipment cost (they replicate for Warner and Fox, so they needed both).

according o lion's gate they are charged <2$ for BD replication and according to pacificdisc they charge 1.77$ for SL HD-DVD [Link: pacificdisc.com]

so I don't see that big difference in price you are talking about.

As for players, yes Toshiba has a subsidized 500$ player but there will be the PS3 on the BD side. You can't look at prices and assume they mean the same, with only minor studio support Toshiba feels they need to heavily discount the players in order to get people to buy. Hell who wants a 500$ up converting DVD player (only DVD for Sony, MGM, Fox, Disney, LG). when just a bit more you can get an HD player


actually cell manufacturing had more to do with that, that is why their BD player is launching in sping but not the PS3


what is more proprietary? something supported by three studios instead of most (just Universal is not supporting BD at this time) , something where Toshiba makes the only player and NEC the only drive (even the Toshiba player uses a NEC drive) or one supported by Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, BenQ, Philips......

As I mentioned before:

Way Way off topic now.

Just because you disagree does not mean you are right.

Remember the LaserDisc. Not owned by the masses like DVD. Primarily supported by hobbyist, went the way of the dinosaur.

I'd bet you owned one didn't ya? You'll be owning another soon enough and it'll have a SONY tag on it. You can quote that if you like.

like before you are wrong. Never bought it because (like HD-DVD) it had very little chance of success


you were the one that stated opinion as fact, I added links to back up what I said I did not link to everything because most are known (and old) facts by anyone that has paid any attention to this war. Do you think CINRAM and LG made stuff up at their shareholder meetings? But because you felt like saying BD is much more expensive it is fact

I haven't exactly seen the news reports on the masses flocking to retailers and snatching up all the HD-DVD players and movies.

HD-DVD really needed the XBox 360 to ship with a player built-in. Yeah, Microsoft announced they'll eventually be selling an add-on player, but that will be too little too late (and of course if you read between the lines I'm sure when the standalone drive comes out there will be a "refreshed" 360 with it built in - so why buy now, eh?)

Ditto. And the following is hilarious.


Hmm. Lasted for approximately 23 years. DVD likely will not last 23 years, it's been 10. How does this example prove Bluray will fail early? Or prove anything at all except that different products have different markets and uses?

Bluray is likely to survive because of 3 reasons. The PS3. Use on PCs, where it will be very popular. Studio backing.

there were only 6000 players released in the first batch in the US and 1000 in Japan a bit earlier, sales were good, but at 6000 and 1000 how can they not :), but at 6k a pop, it isn’t going to help HD DVD get the market share it needs to get studios that are not already supporting it to take notice before BD comes out (and especially the PS3)

Laserdiscs might of been a niche market. But it was THE format in it's time. I still own at least 800 laserdiscs. Still have about 100 videos. And a couple hundred DVD's.
For me, it's all about the movie. Many of my VCR tapes do not exist in any other format. Ditto for many of my laserdiscs. Rarely did I buy a DVD to replace a laserdisc. I would buy a DVD to replace a VHS tape though.
If Hi Def (whichever format) takes off I might start replacing some of those dinosaur Laserdiscs.

If you do, please let me know. I have two Pioneer LaserDisc players, one with AC-3 and DTS, and only around 150 or so laserdiscs.

I have most of the DTS laserdiscs produced. They will probably never get replaced. The sound on some has not been equalled by any format, including DVD's. The Jurrasic Park T-Rex scene has one of the best subwoofer effects ever. And the Ronin car chase scene is tops in the surround sound department.
I have 2 LD players as well. My main one is the CLD-97 with an AC-3 RF upgrade.
When people slam laserdiscs they-
A- Don't know what they are talking about.
B- Don't know what they are missing.

Larry,
Looking for any title in particular? PM me if you want.

I also have Jurassic Park, and I agree with you 100%.

My players are a CLD-D505, with a DTS output I added, with a kit from the now-defunct PrecisionLaserdisc, and a 5-CD/single laser combo player, model number forgotten.

You will hear from me. Bruce is my middle name, by the way.

The sound codecs on HDDVD/BD are better than DVD, and even better than LD, potentially. If some of these old LDs are replaced with a good copy, the new version will be superior.

I agree w/ Daniel. Wait until the 360 ships with the HD drive built in, should be out around November of this year. As far as why no one is flocking to buy HD DVDs, the problem is probably the high price for the limited dvds released in the format.

I am waiting out the HD DVD vs Blue Ray battle and bought a decent Toshiba upconverting DVD player from Costco for $80 and will pick up the 360 when its released w/ the HD drive in November