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Topic:
Pre-wire Rates Questions
This thread has 37 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30.
Post 16 made on Friday February 22, 2019 at 16:15
mwstorch
Long Time Member
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May 2003
375
FunHouse,

I totally agree and tell all of my customers the same thing "we might as well run additional wire(s) as you are already paying for the labor to drill the holes, pull the wire, etc." Most of our "TV jacks" are 1-RG6, 2-CAT6.

For only 1 wire to trim, .5 hour may be heavy, but I rarely have only 1 wire to terminate. That said, from a bid standpoint, nothing takes less than a half hour in my mind because there will always be one or two locations in a house that go completely wrong and take a lot longer (eg. finding a jack that was covered by drywallers and cutting it out, returning on another day because the floor in the library is wet on trim day, belt sanding a decora cover to make it 1/16" thinner, etc.). Call it pessimistic but I'd rather err on the side of (my (economic)) safety, most especially if it is only a fraction of the overall job cost. Like Audiophiliac, we invoice T+M but provide an estimate for everything.

The OP said one drop with one wire. Most "TV jacks" we install are 1-RG6, 2-CAT6 and my math only changes to $299.90 (call it $300) as I would add $50 for the additional wire ($25 each 100 foot run of cat or rg) and $10 each for the 2 additional keystones.

Labor-economy-wise, I would still allocate .5 to trim (I know, I know: Why .5 for one or three wires? Simply put, I don't really want to get to the place where I feel I need to bill in .1 hour increments, like a lawyer, where a single wire is .3 and 3 wires are .7 (not .9, because labor economy/scaling). As a rule, I bid only in .5 hour increments, YMMV.

My business is the design/build of systems and installing TV or data jacks is certainly part of that, but I am not really in the "per-drop, prewire" or "prewire only" business, so I might be way off base with my pricing/bidding logic. I shared my costed out example above as a hard number to share with the community of how I price things and, perhaps, as an example of what to consider when pricing a "drop." Forgive me if that sounds a bit defensive, I mean none. I am here only to learn and share my experience (for good or ill).

OK, 4.15PM, beer time.
Post 17 made on Friday February 22, 2019 at 16:22
ShaferCustoms
Long Time Member
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March 2014
380
“going rates these days for a new construction pre-wire run of just one CAT-6. Average 100ft. per run. With Trim, box, misc...ect”

$50 - parts and materials from ….depot . com (yes - I just looked it up)

$62.50 - tradesman time (1.25x50) (do we have a “Chilton’s Manual” for this stuff?)

so for $112.50

I have made $0

(actually I suppose I’ve lost money because I did NOT include any cost of doing business?)
Post 18 made on Friday February 22, 2019 at 16:40
mwstorch
Long Time Member
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375
Agreed, ShaferCustoms.

After paying salary/hourly employees, payroll tax, rent, GL, WC, truck note, truck insurance/maintenance/depreciation, gas, tool expense (broken bits, etc.), tool/computer/etc. depreciation, stocking costs of wire and parts, permit fee, office expenses (electric, cell, paperclips, etc.) and staff (even if it's you) to design, walk through, invoice, follow up, pull permit, etc. you probably lost some money (maybe a lot of money).

Like I said, I'm not in the per drop business, but anything around $100 seems really low unless you have huge economies of scale (like lots of cheap/1099 employees and lots of big commercial projects that have hundreds and hundreds of drops).
Post 19 made on Friday February 22, 2019 at 17:04
kwkshift
Active Member
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February 2004
508
To properly wire a custom house these days, covering AV, cameras, alarm, control, etc, you could charge by sq/ft of the house. Ive done that for years and it works well. $1.25/ sq.ft. easily.
Post 20 made on Friday February 22, 2019 at 17:34
internetraver
Advanced Member
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April 2003
797
On February 22, 2019 at 16:15, mwstorch said...

OK, 4.15PM, beer time.

Damn!  This sentence actually made me get up and walk over to my (office) fridge for one!!
Post 21 made on Friday February 22, 2019 at 17:52
P2P
Long Time Member
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April 2012
282
On February 22, 2019 at 16:40, mwstorch said...
Agreed, ShaferCustoms.

After paying salary/hourly employees, payroll tax, rent, GL, WC, truck note, truck insurance/maintenance/depreciation, gas, tool expense (broken bits, etc.), tool/computer/etc. depreciation, stocking costs of wire and parts, permit fee, office expenses (electric, cell, paperclips, etc.) and staff (even if it's you) to design, walk through, invoice, follow up, pull permit, etc. you probably lost some money (maybe a lot of money).

Like I said, I'm not in the per drop business, but anything around $100 seems really low unless you have huge economies of scale (like lots of cheap/1099 employees and lots of big commercial projects that have hundreds and hundreds of drops).

Well said Michael.  I've been preaching for years that a lot of companies are actually losing money on their rough-in projects.  They just haven't realized it yet!
Post 22 made on Friday February 22, 2019 at 19:00
mrtristan
Select Member
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October 2003
1,634
I set a generous fixed price for each item then tell them I will bill them that or my hourly rate + material - whichever turns out to be less.
Post 23 made on Friday February 22, 2019 at 21:07
PSS
Select Member
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December 2002
1,520
I charge $225.00 per "drop", which includes 2- RG6QS bare copper center (Ice Cable), not copper clad, 2- Cat6 (Ice Cable), includes decora trim (extra for screw less plates!!)
On the bid it's extra for the structured panel, data termination, etc.
My market has extreme price swings (ie weekend side jobs, no license/ ins, etc.) from trunk slammers to over priced showroom companies. I feel I'm in the middle, though sometimes I've been called "expensive".
Then I come across something like this....[Link: drive.google.com]
OR
[Link: drive.google.com]

Last edited by PSS on February 22, 2019 21:39.
Post 24 made on Friday February 22, 2019 at 21:20
Stryker
Long Time Member
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November 2010
402
We have done a couple wiring jobs on a square footage basis We came in it at $3.00 per square foot. 7-8k square foot homes
"If they give you ruled paper, write the other way"
Post 25 made on Friday February 22, 2019 at 23:00
SB Smarthomes
Super Member
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July 2007
2,634
I don't charge by the square footage for pre-wire, but was curious and looked back at the last 4 jobs.  My pricing was around $2.50-$3.00 per square foot.

These were 8-12k square foot homes with Phone, TV, Network, A/V plus low voltage wiring for Lutron keypads and shades.  Pre-wires are fairly complex with lots of concrete and steel, no basements and very little or no attic space so include lots of conduit and often span 3-6 months.
www.sbsmarthomes.com
Santa Barbara Smarthomes
Post 26 made on Saturday February 23, 2019 at 11:14
mwstorch
Long Time Member
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375
internetraver:

My office family room demo is pictured. Sometimes 4.15 cant arrive too soon...

 photo IMG_1272_zpshqtrgpgd.jpeg
Post 27 made on Saturday February 23, 2019 at 14:25
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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30,104
On February 22, 2019 at 13:20, mwstorch said...

Total installed price for a terminated keystone (at the wall jack only, not including termination on a patch panel at the rack or verification/qualification, etc.) = $ 228.98 or if I round up, $230.

Every single item in the list looks like a fair price but the overall price looks way too large. That's a lesson for all of us: it costs more than some seat-of-the-pants estimate guesses it to be, even such an estimate from someone with A LOT of experience!
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 28 made on Saturday February 23, 2019 at 15:30
buzz
Super Member
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May 2003
4,366
For a similar time on site what would trades charge, regardless of the work complexity?
Post 29 made on Sunday February 24, 2019 at 19:40
Ranger Home
Super Member
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3,486
On February 23, 2019 at 11:14, mwstorch said...
internetraver:

My office family room demo is pictured. Sometimes 4.15 cant arrive too soon...

4.15?
Post 30 made on Monday February 25, 2019 at 17:33
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
Joined:
Posts:
December 2001
30,104
Quarter after four. Maybe he's texting on his phone and figures we'll understand from the context* so he doesn't have to shift from alpha to symbols on his keyboard.




*something I've been (rightly) accused of not being able to do, and hell, I understood it.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
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