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Topic:
Touchscreen Haptic Feedback
This thread has 8 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Tuesday July 31, 2012 at 14:24
CircularMotion
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I have been hearing noise lately about actual physical feedback coming from touchscreens by way of some sort of electrostatic sorcery, opening up the possibility of touchscreens with programmable tactile buttons. I've been taking a look around, and there seems to be a lot of contempt for mobile device control due to the lack of physical buttons (the multipurpose aspect of mobile devices aside). My big questions are: is this a game changer, or a gimmick? Is there anyone out there excited to see this technology applied to proprietary touch screens?
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all - God Nebula (Futurama: EP Godfellas)
Post 2 made on Tuesday July 31, 2012 at 21:02
39 Cent Stamp
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Haptic feedback is like voice control was back in 2000. Fun to play around with but otherwise useless. Ask me again in 2020 (how long i think before it will have any value...assuming it doesn't fail miserably).

As for physical buttons...a lot of people continued to ride horses after the automobile arrived. People love hard buttons because thats the way its always been. "No good reason to change" or "i hate looking down at touchscreens" is what they think. The reality is that they hate looking down at touchscreens because up until recently they had to look down at the touchscreen to use ONLY the buttons that were already on the hard button remote.

What they are not thinking about is the fact that we can now navigate the guide for cable or satellite on the tablet. So now the crazy family member who likes to surf channels all night can do so without annoying the hell out of everyone else. More and more features will be added to the tablet...and not just for cable tv. The entire home will be accessible via lutron apps and thermostat web servers.

People will always (eventually) give up on old technology and start taking advantage of new technology. In 10 years everyone on the planet will have a touchscreen phone and or tablet. Only grandma will care about her hard button remote and tablet based control of everything will be as common as driving cars.
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Post 3 made on Tuesday August 28, 2012 at 16:59
TwistedMelon
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Talking about Horses and Cars isn't really the same thing at all.

This topic is about Apples and Oranges. And the last time I checked, one had not replaced the other.

On July 31, 2012 at 21:02, 39 Cent Stamp said...
What they are not thinking about is the fact that we can now navigate the guide for cable or satellite on the tablet. So now the crazy family member who likes to surf channels all night can do so without annoying the hell out of everyone else.

Channel guide? Do those still exist? Who uses them today? Now if you had mentioned surfing their Netflix queue or digital library, then we're cooking.

Surfing channels means actually changing the channel on the TV - that's going to annoy anyone else in the room.

More and more features will be added to the tablet...and not just for cable tv. The |entire home will be accessible via lutron apps and thermostat web servers.

Tablet and on-screen control are old news. What's new is the tablet as a general-purpose device and that's strictly because of the iPad. It still makes for a poor TV/Theater remote control however, except as a gimmick. At the end of the day people care about (and should care about) content, not playing with their remotes. The less pressing or interacting with the controls, the better off you are.

When I see most screen-based systems I just look at complex navigation and steps that are essentially pretty, but so very manual. A simple and single button press to accomplish what might be 5 swipes and 10 presses at the end of the day will be a lot more satisfying.

That iPad can still be kept around for plenty of other purposes. Replacing older proprietary screens with iPads and custom software definitely makes sense - and has been happening since its introduction.
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Post 4 made on Tuesday August 28, 2012 at 19:01
39 Cent Stamp
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On August 28, 2012 at 16:59, TwistedMelon said...
Talking about Horses and Cars isn't really the same thing at all.

Everyone always says this but it really is. Its meant to illustrate the fact that new technology totally changes the way we do things and how everyone eventually adapts no matter how much they whined about wanting to keep what they had. Horses were great but everyone drives a car now.

This topic is about Apples and Oranges. And the last time I checked, one had not replaced the other.

Haptic feedback is a step backwards where control manufacturers are trying to give us a hard button experience with a touchpanel. They should be focusing on improving the touch experience because no one will care about buttons in the future. Hand held remotes with hard buttons and touchpanels are apples and oranges until you try and make a touchpanel have buttons that you can feel. This brings us back to apples-to-apples.


Channel guide? Do those still exist? Who uses them today? Now if you had mentioned surfing their Netflix queue or digital library, then we're cooking.

Anyone with cable or satellite TV service or fm/xm radio. A large portion of the population.

Surfing channels means actually changing the channel on the TV - that's going to annoy anyone else in the room.

Are you saying that you never change channels when watching TV? To clarify here we are still talking about cable and satellite as in 5 minutes of the news...oooh my show is on...lets flip over to the olympics for a second...channel up channel up channel up thru the HBO channels...Guide...lets see whats on next...nothing on...now we can watch our recorded show.

Tablet and on-screen control are old news. What's new is the tablet as a general-purpose device and that's strictly because of the iPad. It still makes for a poor TV/Theater remote control however, except as a gimmick. At the end of the day people care about (and should care about) content, not playing with their remotes.

Content is worthless without a control device. How do you start your playlist without being able to see/select it via tablet or monitor?

The less pressing or interacting with the controls, the better off you are.

I think you may be at the wrong website. We provide control of everything in the home including audio video from a single remote or tablet or traditional touchpanel. How exactly are you better off without having control of things?


When I see most screen-based systems I just look at complex navigation and steps that are essentially pretty, but so very manual. A simple and single button press to accomplish what might be 5 swipes and 10 presses at the end of the day will be a lot more satisfying.

Please illustrate any source that can be controlled with a simple single button press. Obviously you can have your source startup macros select a playlist or send the play command for a disc but what if you want to play a different playlist? Or create a new playlist on the fly? How do you do that with 1 button?

That iPad can still be kept around for plenty of other purposes. Replacing older proprietary screens with iPads and custom software definitely makes sense - and has been happening since its introduction.

The iPad (and other tablets) is not only being kept around its becoming the primary HID allover the world. Touch devices like tablets are not going anywhere.
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Post 5 made on Wednesday August 29, 2012 at 12:43
TwistedMelon
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If your job involves the automation of client homes and rooms then it should be a primary goal to create the most simple and usable UX possible. That's not what I see most in the CI industry doing.

I think you misunderstood nearly everything from my previous post, and unfortunately I don't have the time nor desire to rehash the entire thing again. Suffice to say that I didn't imply once that tablets were going away. I knew (and was very vocal about it) when the first rumors of the iPad were circling the net a few years before its release that the technology would finally catch on when Apple debuted and that it would change the face of computing forever. However a tablet product is no more a solution to all the problems faced in this market than a car is as a mode of transport (to keep it to automobiles if that's how you need to look at it).
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Post 6 made on Wednesday August 29, 2012 at 14:49
39 Cent Stamp
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On August 29, 2012 at 12:43, TwistedMelon said...
If your job involves the automation of client homes and rooms then it should be a primary goal to create the most simple and usable UX possible. That's not what I see most in the CI industry doing.

I think you misunderstood nearly everything from my previous post, and unfortunately I don't have the time nor desire to rehash the entire thing again. Suffice to say that I didn't imply once that tablets were going away.

On August 28, 2012 at 16:59, TwistedMelon said...
Tablet and on-screen control are old news.

The above is what you said. Not much room for confusion there.

However a tablet product is no more a solution to all the problems faced in this market than a car is as a mode of transport (to keep it to automobiles if that's how you need to look at it).

So cars are not a solution for transportation needs and iPads are not a solution for control systems. I think we are done here. You either just want to argue or your about to head down the rabbit hole after some deep philosophical thought. Keep in mind that you quoted me first and then i responded. If you don't feel the need to explain yourself thats fine.

Feel free to stick to fruit (apples and oranges) if automobiles are not your cup of tea.
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Post 7 made on Thursday August 30, 2012 at 17:11
TwistedMelon
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Should I quote myself with emphasis? "a tablet product is no more A SOLUTION TO ALL THE PROBLEMS faced in this market than a car is as a mode of transport"

Let's look at it backwards.... That means that you can't solve all your transport issues with a car. You can't cross the atlantic with a car. You can't do a red-eye drive from Vegas to New York in a day driving a car. You won't be driving a car across a foot bridge, nor inside a building of through a path in a park. You won't be driving 20 people in a car, nor will you drive one if you need to entertain at the same time.

Now... On the same vein, a tablet, any tablet, is not the be-all and end-all of control nor input. We're at a different stage of the game, but look how well the Pronto line of products did compared to their competitors. And it wasn't because of marketing.

I maintain that you either actually haven't understood what I've written in a few messages or are being disingenuous.
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Post 8 made on Thursday August 30, 2012 at 19:59
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On August 30, 2012 at 17:11, TwistedMelon said...
Should I quote myself with emphasis? "a tablet product is no more A SOLUTION TO ALL THE PROBLEMS faced in this market than a car is as a mode of transport"

I understood what you said. No one said an iPad was a solution for all the problems faced in the market. Do you expect shoes to be the solution to all your wardrobe issues? Or do you just hope they serve as good footwear?

Let's look at it backwards.... That means that you can't solve all your transport issues with a car. You can't cross the atlantic with a car. You can't do a red-eye drive from Vegas to New York in a day driving a car. You won't be driving a car across a foot bridge, nor inside a building of through a path in a park. You won't be driving 20 people in a car, nor will you drive one if you need to entertain at the same time.

This is what i meant when i said you would come back with some deep philosophical thought. No one said that a car is the solution to all transport issues but if your issue is getting from point A to Point B its a damn good solution.

Now... On the same vein, a tablet, any tablet, is not the be-all and end-all of control nor input. We're at a different stage of the game, but look how well the Pronto line of products did compared to their competitors. And it wasn't because of marketing.

Again...who said it was the be all end all? It's a wi-fi touchscreen. It's the best wi-fi touchscreen. There is no better wi-fi touchscreen.

No one said it was an in-wall keypad.

I maintain that you either actually haven't understood what I've written in a few messages or are being disingenuous.

I understood what you wrote. It might not be what you meant.
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Post 9 made on Friday September 14, 2012 at 12:35
Barry Gordon
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The reason I still use my Prontos for A/V control is I can do it by feel alone. I can have the pronto under the covers and do all my common functions without ever looking at it. The Home Automation sysytem has in wall iPads. They really are in-wall with just a bezel showing. Whats nice about the units (Dockx makes them) is that the part that goes in the wall is thinner than the thickness of stanard wall board used for walls in the US. Therefore where studs are really does not matter.


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