^ A Thousand times this! ^

The policy that URC has made might be one of the most asinine that I have ever seen for several reasons. I have spent several years advocating their products, having owned a SL-9000 and MX-500 (and yes, I bought both from local, authorized dealers) to control my self-installed theater room.

I was about to purchase a mx-450, but found mx-890 and started to do some homework. I liked everything I saw and decided to buy the higher end model despite the difficulty in programming it. Being an experienced software developer and well aware of the complexities of integrating a theater room into a seamless experience, I felt I was more than qualified to handle the software.

I did a local search for places that sell the remote (did not find any willing to specify prices without a visit), I decided to order via amazon. (Important note, bad dealer policy is why I was going to order online, not price as I generally am willing to pay 20-27% markup for local support).

Right before I ordered, I saw a warning that online sales did not honor the warranty. If not for that, I would not have found the criminally insane policy of not providing programming software for a programming remote.

And, yes - I did do my research before that. Their website features “residential products” prominently on their web pages and the “retail products” are not even visible unless you click the arrow to the right on at the bottom of the home page. The mx-890 product page has absolutely NO mention of their policy regarding this product. After 30 minutes I found their “Internet Sales Warning” page which I still cannot believe is their policy.

Seriously guys, the product description does NOT have a warning on it. Do you REALLY think most people will find they cannot get the software before they order?

When you look up a remote you find it on Amazon first. The reseller gives absolutely no warning that the product is basically a brick if you buy it. Buyer beware, sure - but this reflects VERY negatively on 1) the manufacturer, and 2) you dealers since Amazon itself is an authorized dealer. Once someone realizes the distinction with a reseller, it is usually too late.

However, what you do not realize is that this policy actually HURTS dealers much more than you could possibly imagine as the list of unintended consequences is a mile long.

First, it eliminates sales from do-it-yourselfers such as myself. As a general rule, we probably send your brick and mortar stores more business than you could imagine because we show off our custom rooms and others want to replicate it without the expertise.

Second, customers who do buy the product and have to return it (if they can). They will blame URC as much as the guy who sold it to them. Which drives down the entry level sales you would get otherwise. (Every time I go in for something simple like a new screen, I get a 40 minute sales pitch on something new – I ended up buying my last projector because of it. My local dealer loves it because of the repair work it has needed, I might add...)

Third, once an average customer faces this problem, they will download a virus laden copy of the software when dealers won't provide them the CCP software. I wouldn't be surprised if URC is eventually sued by a shady lawyer as a result (lawyers can sue for anything, and companies are often forced to payout to avoid the fees. In the end, it will hurt prices and your sales as a result.)

Finally, Fourth - the most important item to the self-righteous “experts” on this site. When any or all of this happens the person becomes angry at the good local guy because it is apparent this policy is in place to “help” you. This policy from URC is on your hands, not the guy online.

Just to clarify, I am not angry because I experienced this policy first hand. I did not buy the remote. I am angry because I will never own the remote I wanted to buy. I am also angry because I am so irritated at dealers that I know I will be stuck buying my next projector from Fry's.

tldr? I blame local dealers for bad URC policy.

Amazon is NOT an authorized reseller for any CCP remotes. The fact it is sold on Amazon is certainly not the fault of any dealers here, so I am not sure why you are angry at any of us. The problem lies with URC not being clear on its packaging, or on its website. Yes I agree its confusing.

There are so many things in life that are protected and this is the only thing that continually comes up. It's not criminal that URC does not distribute the software to the general public. It's simply their policy.

.. by saying.." why are you angry at any of us".. make me to believe that you are a dealer yourself.. correct?.. If so.. would you give me the software if I purchased a remote from you?... Or, I would have to schedule a apt. with you everytime I buy a new DVD player, TV, receiver.. etc???

I don't know any dealer who wouldn't give someone the software if they paid retail price. This always comes up because someone buys the remote on Amazon or eBay. The only big box store I know you can buy the remote from is Best Buy and there is a large yellow sticker on the front of the box with a warning about needing professional programming software.

I would gladly take a full retail URC sale including the software and I don't have to do any work? Absolutely. The problem is customers want to be cheap, buy it at cost, and then expect the software as well. Guess what, you have to pay to play. Buy a Harmony. It comes with the software. The retail price of the MX-890 is $499. Give your location and I'm sure there is a dealer who will gladly sell you the remote for that and give you the software. Crestron, RTI, Elan, Control4, and countless others have this same policy. Some shady grey market dealer isn't selling those on Amazon so there isn't near the amount of animosity.

I have nothing against DIY'ers, and I'm not sure any respectable company does. However, our focus is on revenues. DIY customers provide little to no revenue. They're not even a blip on my radar. My business is designed around solutions to people who can afford it and have no desire or time to do it themselves.

I give the software to my clients if they ask. Also, when a client purchases the DVD player/TV/receiver from my company, I include reprogramming in the price of installation for them.



Damon

When looking to purchase URC remotes the majority of dealers I contacted who were even willing to provide the software (they were in the minority) would only provide it if I paid them for the original setup programming.

I made that mistake, paid for terrible programming, and learned a $300+ lesson.

Hopefully others will learn from my mistake and only deal with a dealer who will provide the software as part of the sale, and not contingent upon being paid for programming.

eBay is the only way to buy!
There is URC Software for programming on the net as I have learned myself.

The consumer needs to take back control. Lucky for me my 2 sons have helped me get everything working perfect.

Not the consumers responsibility to make dealers price competitive, that is their job. Our job is to find a good / reasonable deal.

Legally.

Let's not forget that part.

I hope your remote craps out today and you realize you have no warranty.

Just to clarify for anyone who stumbles upon this thread.

Buying a URC remote on eBay is 100% legal, even if URC would prefer that you don't purchase it there. Downside is that URC will not provide warranty support for it. That being said, the price difference may still be worth it for some.

Downloading the software from someone not authorized to distribute it, is illegal.

Anyone buying a URC remote on eBay and searching torrents for the software knows they're on the other side of legal, but they'll rationalize it in their mind however they have to. They really just don't care. That's the kind of people they are. If they don't know it's copyright infringement, then they're way too ignorant to program a URC remote on their own.

If you are willing to "program" the remote yourself (which is not very difficult at all thanks to the boys showing me) then buying on Amazon or eBay is the smartest thing to do. All this talk about losing the manufacturer's warranty by buying online is silly and something I was educated on myself during the purchase of my remote. What do you stand to lose? Just a 1 year warranty which only covers a defect in manufacturing of the product.

Is that really worth paying an extra $200+ for? If someone thinks it is, go right ahead and buy it from your dealer.

Now that I know, I'd rather buy from eBay or Amazon where the same exact product is being sold without the ridiculous 80% marked up MSRP and buy a $50 warranty from SquareTrade.

SquareTrade will sell you a warranty for around $50 for your eBay purchase and will cover 3 years of spills, drops, and other accidents. If your unit breaks, they'll fix it within 5 business days or cut you a check for your original purchase price. Hard to believe right? I mean, I asked my kids to explain it and my one boy said 'greed'. He's a straight shooter :p

If your remote that you purchased from an authorized dealer breaks after 1 year, URC will tell you they'll be more than happy to sell you a new one, at a discount (which will still be more expensive than buying a new one online).

So as long as URC "accidentally" ends up selling remotes to online stores, consumers would be stupid not to buy from them.



Well, that doesn't seem very nice.

You coveniently skip over the part where you have to commit a crime to get the software. However you have to rationalize it is fine.

I'd rather not have to work for money. Why not just take it from the bank? They don't do anything for it?!

Joe - did you ever think of just asking for a discount from a dealer? Sure, maybe not all will give you one, but there are some. Instead of doing that, you ramble on about how ignorant everyone else is for not following your logic. What are you proving to anyone? What are you accomplishing?



Damon

Well, I imagine whoever is spreading the software gained access to it somehow. I am not one to judge since I don't have all the facts but I would like to think it's made available legally. And if that is not the case then I wonder why the webpage is still up and why dealers, URC, lawyers and the courts have not had it taken down. I don't know a whole lot about the internet but my neighbor told me once he got a rude facebook picture taken down.. 2 clicks he said!!!

Again, like I said in my other reply. I got my software now and I program from home now. Yes, I asked my kids a few times what to do here and there but I am not calling some tech who wants to overcharge me.

I hope you guys figure it out because if someone is ILLEGALLY sharing someone else's stuff then yes, take it down.

If anyone can show me what I have done is illegal I will uninstall the software.

Joe Grims