Dear URC,

First off, I am not a CI. I know I am posting in the CI forum, but I think that since I am mainly speaking to your higher-end product line, this topic belongs in this forum, not in the other one.

While I appreciate the interesting stuff I can do with the MX-3000, I am starting to get frustrated by the limitations as well. Only boolean variables? No dynamic animations? Only if-then logic? With only slightly higher amounts of ram and a bit of programming, one could easily do a flash or silverlight-based remote with some sort of IR hardware API (or hell, while I'm wishing, you could do it in Java, C, etc) that would allow for true flexibility.

While I understand that a certain level of ease of use is required as most CI's are NOT programmers and don't really care to be, I am curious if URC will ever move beyond their current style of programming to allow for an ACTUAL programming environment? At this point, to do some of the stuff I REALLY want to do, I am forced to go down the route Bracken Baker did and start reading the binary file format so I can write code to generate RCC files (BTW Bracken, you are a god among men for figuring that out... it is taking me forever). It could be so much easier with a more robust programming environment.

I know you guys don't really cater to the DIY enthusiast per se, but I think that with new products like the iphone becoming more and more common, end users are beginning to expect more from their touchscreen products. They are going to start looking at their MX-3000 (with, at best, dinky animated GIF graphics in 256 colors) and thinking how dated it looks. I encourage you to go and find the best programmed MX-3000 you can find (and I have to admit, I have seen some pretty slick stuff, some of you folks can do amazing things with what you have available). Now hold it up to an iphone. Doesn't really compare, eh? Now granted, the UI for the iphone was designed by some of the best minds in the business. What irks me is that, with the current tools provided, I can't even make an MX-3000 look close. Until a more flexible development method is offered, I think the MX-3000 is going to continue to look dated.

If you want my opinion, the first place to look is the iphone. The current application development for iphone is based on AJAX/HTML. Combine that with an IR/RF interaction API and you have something special. Entry level CI's could use some variant of Frontpage or dreamweaver style WYSIWYG editor for basic layouts and functionality. Higher level CI's and dedicated remote programmers (get used to that idea, folks) could tweak higher end stuff with AJAX and CSS-based layouts. Ease of use, but also the ability to do much more. Think about it....

So, URC, what if anything can we expect for a new direction in programming? I hope for the sake of all of your customers (and here, I mean CI's and authorized dealers) that you have something new in mind. Because if you are planning to stick with the status quo, you may start to lose customers.

Regards,
-aedile-

Of course, we can't comment on the direction of future products or enhancements to existing products.

However, as you noted, you're not a CI and as you know, this product was designed for CI's. Since the average person (and I'm not speaking of skilled do-it-yourselfers like yourself) doesn't have the knowledge or time to program at the level you desire, most of our products are designed with one thing in mind: to give the CI the right set of tools to quickly meet the needs of his customer. It's clear from your post that you already know that the costs of configurability are time and experience. Generally, CI's cannot devote the days, weeks, or even months required to create entirely custom user interfaces.

There are a few exceptions, such as Lee Kropp, who are basically like myself: home theater hobbyists who also happen to work in the industry. Folks like Lee and Bracken devote the time because they love wha they're doing... but it's likely that neither of them could be profitable if they add up the hours invested and include them in the cost of their installs.

So when we make decisions about what features to add to future products, our number one concern is that any added "power" doesn't come at the cost of profitability for the majority of installers who will never tap that power. To be honest, as a hobbyist myself, this was the hardest lesson I had to learn when I came into this industry.

All that being said, the future holds bright things for URC installers. Over the coming year especially, I'm quite excited to see what installers will do with some of the things that are currently just over the horizon.

Best regards,
Dale

I am a dedicated remote programmer and I love the way the urc is designed. I have ran into few issues over the past years I have programmed. Physically the remotes are very durable and can withstand kids. I usually do one or two per day. The programming is quick and easy. Also, from what I have seen with the mx980, I think URC is headed in the right direction. Personally, I think they are a great solution for those who don't have the money or desire for crestron or amx. So I guess I am saying thanks to URC for giving me a job and making it easy.

Dale,

Let me just make sure I make one thing clear. I love URC products. The main reason I bring these things up is because I don't want their products to go the way of the when they fail to innovate and people lose interest. Far be it from me to determine the direction your business takes; however, I can say that the people I DO program for (namely my own home[read: my wife] and a few close friends) are already asking for ipod-like functionality/interfaces and I can't give it to them. If URC fails to account for increased demands on functionality, their touchscreen products WILL eventually become irrelevant. And with products like the iphone out there, demand WILL increase.

Regards,
-aedile-

Aedile:

I completely understand your view. And if it's any consolation, we've had iPhones from day one of their launch. We also study the Zune, other media players, and in general, anything with a touch screen or onscreen user interface. Forgive me if my replies are somewhat cryptic, but obviously anything I say as an enthusiast must first be bound by my responsibilities as an employee. I hope that my necessary degree of obsfucation doesn't come across as rudeness—I'm really just one enthusuast chatting with another, saying as much as I can say within the bounds of the circumstance. :-)

We're very much in tune with the precedent the iPhone set. It has a definite impact on what customers expect. As we move forward, the key to the success of our installers will always be to provide the level of quality and interaction that their customers expect, while still keeping the customization necessary to implement customer solutions within a managable (a.k.a. profitable) editor. Because our business revolves around custom installers, it is their needs we must meet and their success we must ensure. And as you noted, their needs are directly dictated by the clients they serve. So clearly, as we respond to installer requirements, we are by default responding to end-user requirements.

Unfortunately, that equation rarely meets the specific needs of the tinkerers like you and me. But that doesn't mean we can't tinker. As you noted, folks like Bracken and Lee have done things nobody ever expected the MX-3000 to do. As new products come along with new capabilities, I feel confident that similar enthusiam will lead to even greater results with later-generation products.

Best regards,
Dale

Sounds to me like your in the realm of AMX and Crestron with AMX open source line based coding and Crestrons SIMPL modules... sounds like you will have alot more fun programming for these systems!

It would be interesting to hear about what his specific limitations are and what he cannot do that he need to rather than hearing about some of URC's shortcomings. The MX-3000 is a pretty powerful remote and there are many things that can be done with dynamic buttons and variables that cannot easily be done on most other remotes. Definetely should consider a career change in Crestron and AMX if this doesn't stimulate his senses.

Well, it's clear that he's interested in iPhone-level interactivity and animation. That's a tall order on the MX-3000. After all, the hardware design is over three years old.

Granted, it's suprising just how acheivable it actually is if you're willing to spend the time to program it. You're never going to get Google Maps on the MX-3000, of course, but if you want those neat sliding page transitions and zooming fades, just take a look at André du Fresne's "Jade" template, or Dave Beck's "Metal MX-3000" template. Both of them have terriffic transition animations. Of course, that comes at the cost of configurability. But then, you can't configure the apps on an iPhone to do exactly what you want, either.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying, "the MX-3000 can do anything an iPhone can do." But it can do a surprising amount if you're willing to spend the time to program, design, and configure it.

But then, you'd spend at least that much writing an equally interactive program for an iPhone, wouldn't you? It's all a question of how much time you're willing to invest. For most installers, that question is answered by how much their client wants to spend. And that's why we work hard to make sure that making things cool is always the second consideration behind getting the job done. (Not that "easy to configure" means "boring"... after all, the templates for the MX-980 are a lot more advanced graphically than the original MX-3000 templates, which were really pretty basic (I can say that—I designed both sets of templates).

So I think he's got a point, but we also have to keep in mind that it's not a computer, a PDA, or a phone. It's a remote, and 99.5% of everyone who ever owns it wants one thing out of it: for it to control their home theater reliably, with no learning curve. That leaves people like Andre, Lee, Bracken, and others to sit down and figure out, "Okay... I know what they SAY it can do... but what can this thing REALLY do!?"

Is there a show on MTV called "Pimp My Remote?" I wanna be the first guest on THAT show!

Best regards,
Dale

A few things.

First, what i really wanted to do was an analog slider and/or dial. Don't think that's gonna happen though i did come up with an idea for a more digital slider that may actually work. I'll be sure to share if it works out.

Second, I'd never throw my business to AMX or Crestron. While I would likely love the flexibility, I feel that URC does a better job with it's unofficial support of the DIY community. AMX and Crestron are both downright hostile.

I would like to add my voice to Darnitol's praise of folks like Bracken, Lee and Andre, who push the envelope with their creative solutions. They're the folks who keep me trying new things and as Darnitol mentioned, deserve a lot of the credit for things some of us take for granted now.

Finally, thanks to Darnitol for taking time to address my general questions. I am glad to know that URC isn't going to stick with the status quo forever and look forward to see what exciting new offerings they'll have in the near future.

Regards,
-aedile-

Aedile:

No problem. Like I said, I'm as much an enthusiast as I am "part of the industry." So I try to answer the questions I can. I hate it when there are things I know that I can't share, but that's part of working for any company. Like right now, there's a question in another thread that I simply can't address, even though I know the answer. But since the company doesn't have an "offical" answer yet, and I know it deals with ongoing development, I just have to look the other way. Unfortunately some people seem to take this as "they just won't answer us," when really the situation is "I'm just a guy on these forums, like the rest of you, and while I may get the official answer first, I still can't say anything until it's official." So You have my personal thanks for understanding!

Best regards,
Dale

Dale thanks for the props. You made my day.

Aedile send me a video of what you want. I'm up for a challenge.

Just so you know Dale is right when it come to CI programers. A lot of them are overwhelmed with just the basics of what the remote can do. I have gone to several packed trainings where I know just as much as the trainer and I have to leave because 10% don't know how to load the program, and the rest are just learning the basics. I would love to have a cutting edge training with URC to see just where we can take this remote.

Note to all: what I wrote is not ment to upset anyone!
I just happen to have time to play more than most. I know most of you CI work 12 hour day 6 to 7 days a week like I use to. That is why I like to share what I have done. I have 5 or 6 new designs that I am waiting for Daniel to post in the file section.

Lee

Not to dis URC, whose products are great for what they are designed to do, but there are control solutions out there which allow for everything that the OP mentioned.

Get on the web and knock your self out!

:)

cassidycaid

Nobody here is saying the MX3000 is the end all of remotes. The MX3000 is just one of the best at it's price point. The RTI T4 is amazing and there are others. But the T4 is $2,500.00. I have a lot of high end clients who don't even blink at any price that I give them, but a lot more of my clients are working class. Their systems consist of a flat panel, DVD, Surround sound receiver, and a cable box. I sell most of these people the MX3000 which is a little over kill for simple systems, but everyone can use it.

As far as control solutions, yea there are better remotes with two way functionally. For the price and what you can do with the MX3000 there are few better.

I think these topic is more about "pimping your MX3000". I for one like to play and come up with new ideas. I have down loaded every templete here on RC, I found thing that I like and try to make them better. I like the file section because we can share and make better templetes. I just hope that when URC releases it next great remote doesn't abandon all of the work that we have all done.

Daniel: Do I need to resubmit the last 7 or 8 files that I have sent over the last few months?

Lee

Let me first say that I like the video on the website!
Thinking about stealing it... ;)

I wasn't specifically referring to the T4 in my post. Was thinking of something more like www.convergentliving.com

I was under the impression that the OP was frustrated with the level of adaptability in URC's flagship remote and relevant programming software. I believe he implies that he would consider a more expensive remote if it had more of the features that he wants.

I fully agree with you about URC and its quality at its price point. Most of the remotes we sell are URC. I also commend you for your efforts in improving the quality of 3000 templates everywhere!

I was merely posting to the OP and not, perhaps, the general direction of the thread.

cassidycaid

tell me what you want and I will send you a copy of the program.


I for one am starting to get a little tried of the limitations with the MX3000 software and RF problems. When will I be able to control my system with my mind????????? COME ON URC GET WITH IT OR WE WILL LEAVE. Is it to much to have everything we want or could want right now?????????????

The future is coming URC so get on the ball, but beware done release the physic remote until you have all of the RF bugs worked out.

LOL

Lee


PS The post was not intended to harm any feelings of forum readers, their families, and or pets.